Mar 17, 2026 Pre-Budget Work Session

[00:00:05]

I'D CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. ROLL CALL, PLEASE.

MR. COX. HERE. MR. PHILLIP PUGH. HERE. MR. HAMILL. HERE.

MR. FORD PUGH. HERE. MR. WEBB. HERE. AT THIS TIME, MS. PUDLOW WILL LEAD US IN THE INVOCATION TONIGHT.

DEAR HEAVENLY FATHER, WE JUST BRING OURSELVES BEFORE YOU TODAY. WE THANK YOU FOR THE LIFE... LONG CONTRIBUTION OF TAXES THAT PEOPLE MAKE IN INVESTING IN THEIR GOVERNMENT. WE THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE THOSE PEOPLE, LORD, AND WE PRAY THAT YOU WOULD BE IN THIS ROOM WITH US. AS WE HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS AND GIVE US ALL CLARITY AND THE THINGS.

WE NEED TO MAKE THE BEST DECISIONS, FOR THE BOARD TO MAKE THE BEST DECISIONS, AND FOR US TO PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION.

THIS EVENING, WE ASK THAT IN YOUR HEAVENLY NAME. AMEN.

TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. ONE NATION, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MS. PUDLOW.

THANK YOU, EVERYBODY. ALL RIGHT. WITH THAT, WE WILL NOW MOVE INTO THE ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA. ANY ADDITIONS, DELETIONS TO THE AGENDA? IF NOT, I'LL ASK FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE. MR. CHAIR, I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.

ALL RIGHT. I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA BY MR. FORD-PUGH. SECOND. I HAVE A SECOND BY MR. SCOTT-HAMILL.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, ROLL CALL, PLEASE. MR. PHILLIP PUGH.

YES. MR. HAMILL. YES. MR. FORD PUGH. YES. MR. WEBB.

YES. MR. COX. YES. OKAY,

[B. WORK SESSION]

WE'RE JUST WAITING FOR THE LIGHTS TO START. SO WE'RE GOING TO BE GOING OVER THE FY27 BUDGET PRIORITIES BASED ON BOARD INPUT, SOME DISCUSSION ON THE GENERAL FUND FIRST, SO THAT'LL BE OUR FIRST PRESENTATION. AREAS FOR CONSIDERATION. IT'S ON, SORRY, WORKING THROUGH SOME TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES. OKAY.

[00:05:02]

THERE YOU GO. THANK YOU. I CAN TRY. NEED TO INCREASE THE LINE ITEM IN TECHNOLOGY. GENTLEMEN, I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT DELAY.

OKAY, WE'LL JUST GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED TO DISCUSSION THIS EVENING. SO PLAN B, DIFFERENT COMPUTER AND SAME DOCUMENT. ALL RIGHT, SO BOARD OF SUPERVISOR FUNDING CHOICES, THIS IS THE SAME THING WE WENT OVER LAST TIME. AGAIN, THESE ARE LEVERS, DECISION AREAS THAT THE BOARD CAN CONSIDER. THE ONLY CHANGE ON THIS SLIDE IS THE POTENTIAL INCREASE TO EMS BILLING. SO WE WILL BE WORKING WITH THE BOARD THIS EVENING TO SEE IF THERE'S CONSENSUS TO ADD THE ESTIMATED REVENUES INCREASES FROM EMS BILLING. OR IF WE WOULD LIKE TO REMAIN CONSERVATIVE IN OUR PROJECTIONS FOR EMS. BILLING FOR NEXT FY. SO, FOR FUNDING CHOICES, THE REAL ESTATE TAX RATE IS CURRENTLY BASED ON BOARD INPUT, GOING TO STAY AT 82 CENTS PER $100 OF ASSESSED VALUE. PERSONAL PROPERTY TAX IS REMAINING AT $3.90 AND THEN M&T MACHINERY AND TOOLS TAX AT $1.50.

FOR SCHOOL TRANSFERS, WE WILL NEED, AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR BOARD DISCUSSION THIS EVENING TO TRY TO REACH, YOU KNOW, WE'LL HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THE SCHOOL TRANSFERS. THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME MORE CLARIFICATION FROM THE BOARD BEFORE WE CAN PROCEED TO PROPOSING A BUDGET. AND THEN AGAIN, WE'LL NEED BOARD FEEDBACK IF WE'D LIKE TO ADD, IF THE BOARD WOULD LIKE US TO ADD THE INCREASED REVENUE FOR EMS BILLING.

FOR DEPARTMENTAL FEES, THERE WAS BOARD CONSENSUS TO IMPLEMENT THE PLANNING FEE INCREASE. THAT'S AN INCREASE

[00:10:01]

FOR THE FY27 FISCAL YEAR, AND THAT WOULD ADD $42,272 TO BUDGETED REVENUES.

FOR DEBT RESERVE CONTRIBUTIONS, THERE WAS CONSENSUS TO REMOVE THE $522,443 TO THE GENERAL FUND TRANSFER FOR THE DEBT FUND. HEALTH INSURANCE INCREASE, THERE WAS A CONSENSUS TO PASS THAT INCREASE ALONG A PORTION OF HEALTH INSURANCE INCREASE TO EMPLOYEES. SO THAT WOULD BE A GENERAL FUND REDUCTION OF $26,037. THIS IS ALSO BECAUSE IT'S A DIFFERENT NUMBER THAN WHAT WAS PRESENTED. BECAUSE IT ALSO DECREASES THE REVENUE FROM DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES BY $739. BOTH WERE PRESENTED, BUT THAT'S WHERE THE DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN THE $26,776 AND THE $37,000.

DEPARTMENTAL COSTS, THERE WAS CONSENSUS FROM THE BOARD TO KEEP $100,000 IN PROFESSIONAL SERVICES IN THE PLANNING BUDGET FOR THE NEXT YEAR. PHASE OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND SUBDIVISION UPDATES. AGAIN, WE WE WERE LOOKING AT THAT AS A DISCUSSION POINT THIS EVENING JUST TO MAKE SURE WE ARE TRACKING CORRECTLY WITH THE BOARD'S INTENTION THERE. SO EMPLOYEE POSITION FUNDING.

THERE WAS BOARD CONSENSUS FOR RECLASSIFICATION OF THE POLICE LIEUTENANT TO CAPTAIN, ONE FULL-TIME POLICE RECORDS CLERK, ONE FULL-TIME DEPUTY SHERIFF AND ONE PART-TIME REGULAR DEPUTY SHERIFF. THERE WAS ALSO BOARD CONSENSUS TO RESTORE THE $11,582 IN PART-TIME WAGES TO COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND CODE COMPLIANCE. THAT WOULD BE DUE TO THE FULL-TIME ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES POSITION NOT BEING FUNDED. AND THERE WAS ALSO CONSENSUS FOR REDUCTION OF POLICE PART-TIME WAGES DUE TO FUNDING OF THE FULL-TIME RECORDS CLERK, SAVING $21,953. THERE WAS NO BOARD CONSENSUS FOR ANY OF THE OTHER DEPARTMENT REQUESTS OR RECLASSIFICATIONS.

AT THIS TIME. FOR EMPLOYEE POSITION FUNDING RATES, THERE WAS BOARD CONSENSUS FOR A STEP INCREASE FOR ALL EMPLOYEES. THAT WAS UNANIMOUS.

THAT'S AN AVERAGE OF 1.5% INCREASE PER EACH EMPLOYEE.

THERE WAS ALSO BOARD CONSENSUS FOR A FIRE COST OF LIVING ADJUSTMENT OF 3%.

THAT WAS BASED ON AVERAGES. SO AGAIN, WE CAN DISCUSS THAT MORE THIS EVENING TO ENSURE WE'RE CONTINUING AND MAINTAINING WHAT THE BOARD INTENDS THERE.

THERE'S ALSO CONSENSUS FOR A POLICE COST OF LIVING BASED ON THE AVERAGE FOR THE THREE SCORED 2.7% OR, EXCUSE ME, 2.5% AND THEN THERE WAS NO CONSENSUS FOR NON-PUBLIC SAFETY COST OF LIVING ADJUSTMENTS. FOR CAREER DEVELOPMENT INCREASES, THE POLICE AND CHIEF DEPUTY CAREER DEVELOPMENT WAS COMMISSIONER OF REVENUE, SORRY, THANK YOU. THOSE INCREASES, CAREER DEVELOPMENT INCREASES, WERE ALSO HAD BOARD CONSENSUS, AND THEN GREAT INCREASES FOR THREE EMPLOYEES PERFORMING DUTIES OUTSIDE OF JOB DESCRIPTION ALSO HAD BOARD CONSENSUS. SO THERE WAS NO BOARD CONSENSUS FOR HR STUDY RECOMMENDED RECLASSIFICATION FOR NON SALARY REQUESTS. THERE WAS BOARD CONSENSUS TO INCREASE GENERAL FUND TRANSFER FOR SCHOOL BUSES BY EIGHTY ONE THOUSAND NINETY DOLLARS. THAT WOULD TAKE IT FROM $543,000 TO $374,000, UP TO $624,464.

THERE WAS ALSO CONSENSUS FROM THE BOARD TO FUND THE GARAGE AIR COMPRESSOR FOR $12,805 AND THE GARAGE TIRE CHANGING MACHINE FOR $7,597.

THERE IS, WE WERE HAVING THE TEMPLE PARK DISCUSSION FOR IMPROVEMENTS AS A POINT FOR DISCUSSION WITH THE BOARD THIS EVENING TO AGAIN MAKE SURE WE'RE UNDERSTANDING THE BOARD'S INTENTION WITH THAT PROJECT, IF IT WAS GOING TO COME OUT OF TOURISM FUNDS, OR IF WE WANTED TO DISREGARD THAT FOR THIS YEAR. WE DID FIND RIGHT-SIZING OPPORTUNITIES OF $21,148 IN NET REDUCTIONS IDENTIFIED ACROSS THE COUNTY. THAT WAS BASED ON OUR LINE-BY-LINE OF NON-SALARY AND BENEFIT SCRUBS.

SO THOSE ARE COST SAVINGS FOR THE COUNTY. AND THAT IS A BOARD CONSIDERATION. SO OBVIOUSLY THE BOARD HAS TO ACCEPT THOSE CHANGES. OTHER BOARD REQUESTED REDUCTIONS.

THERE WERE SOME BOARD MEMBERS WHO HAD ADDITIONAL REDUCTIONS SUGGESTED IN THE AMOUNT OF $515,672. SOME OF THOSE WERE, I

[00:15:02]

OF THAT AMOUNT, $218,071 WAS POSSIBLE. THERE WERE CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS AND SOME CONSIDERATIONS FOR THE ABOVE THE FULL AMOUNT.

BUT AGAIN, THE 218,071 DID HAVE SOME POSSIBLE REDUCTIONS THERE FOR THE BOARD CONSIDERATION.

BUT THEY WOULD HAVE OPERATIONAL IMPACT. SO, SOME OF THOSE INCLUDED CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE PG. HOPEWELL HEALTHY FAMILIES, THE JAMES HOUSE SENIOR NAVIGATOR. THESE ARE CURRENTLY RECEIVING FUNDS. AND THEN SOME OF THE ABOVE RECOMMENDED REDUCTIONS WERE BASED ON THINGS WE DON'T CURRENTLY FUND, SO THAT'S WHY THEY WOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE TO REDUCE. WE DON'T CURRENTLY FUND ALL OF THEM. AND THEN LEGAL SERVICES FOR DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES, THIS INCLUDES EXPERTISE AFTER HOURS CALLS. SO IF WE GET INTO THAT DISCUSSION THIS EVENING, I, I DO HAVE SOME CONSIDERATIONS THERE. DATA STORAGE FOR POLICE. THE GRANTS WON'T COVER A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THAT COST. AND THEN AGAIN, POTENTIAL DISCUSSION FOR THE BOARD, WE DON'T HAVE TO FIGURE THIS OUT THIS EVENING, BUT DEPARTMENT OF STRATEGIC PLANS, WE'VE GOT SOME OPTIONS OUT THERE. AND JUST WANT TO KEEP THAT ON THE RADAR FOR BRINGING BACK TO THE BOARD FOR SOME DECISIONS LATER.

OKAY, AT THIS TIME, I AM GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO MS. DRURY.

LET ME SEE IF WE CAN GET THIS WORKING, OTHERWISE WE'LL GET THIS OTHER COMPUTER. GOOD EVENING, BOARD MEMBERS. AS MS. PUDLOW MENTIONED, JUST TO RECAP WHAT IS SCORED AND WHAT WE HIGHLIGHTED AS CONSENSUS, CURRENTLY, TWO BOARD MEMBERS REQUESTED TO REDUCE THE TAX RATE, WHICH DOES NOT PROVIDE U.S.

CONSENSUS CURRENTLY TO REDUCE THE TAX RATE. ALL BOARD MEMBERS AGREED TO THE PLANNING FEE RECOMMENDED CHANGES, WHICH DOES RESULT.

AND KEEPING THE $13,600 IN INCREASED REVENUE IN. THERE WAS CONSENSUS TO INCREASE THE RECREATION FEE BY $20, WHICH ADDS $42,427.

AND THERE WAS CONSENSUS TO REDUCE THE DEBT RESERVE CONTRIBUTIONS, WITH THREE MEMBERS REDUCING IT ENTIRELY, AND TO... REDUCING IT A LITTLE LESS THAN THE FULL DROP IN OUR DEBT PAYMENTS. THIS PARTICULAR ITEM WAS TO LEAVE IN THE $100,000 TO DO CONTRACTED SERVICES FOR THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S COMPLETION OF ORDINANCE UPDATES. ONLY TWO BOARD MEMBERS ELECTED TO TAKE THAT OUT. SO IT REMAINS IN AT THIS POINT. SCHOOL TRANSFER DISCUSSION, THERE WAS NO CLEAR CONSENSUS ON AN AMOUNT TO REDUCE. THREE BOARD MEMBERS DID SCORE TO TAKE THE SCHOOL CONTRIBUTION BELOW LEVEL FUNDING, THE AMOUNT THAT WE ARE CONTRIBUTING TODAY.

SO WE MAY WANT TO REVISIT THIS AS BOARD MEMBERS. SCORE OTHER PRIORITIES AND COME BACK TO AN AMOUNT, IF ANY, TO REDUCE SCHOOLS. THIS INFORMATION HERE WAS JUST PROVIDED IN THE EVENT THAT BOARD MEMBERS CHOSE TO REDUCE THE TAX RATE. THAT IS A SHARED REVENUE SOURCE WITH THE SCHOOL DIVISION. AS MS. PUDLOW MENTIONED, THERE WAS BOARD CONSENSUS TO PASS ALONG. PART OF THE HEALTH INSURANCE INCREASE TO EMPLOYEES, WHICH REDUCES. THE NET REDUCTION TO THE GENERAL FUND, IS $26,037, BOTH THE EXPENSE FALLS

[00:20:02]

THERE WAS A CONSENSUS TO PROVIDE A STEP INCREASE FOR ALL EMPLOYEES. CAN YOU GO BACK UP REAL QUICK? SURE. THAT ONE RIGHT THERE, I JUST WANT TO READ. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. SURE. THE COST OF LIVING INCREASES. WERE DIFFERENT FROM THE BOARD MEMBERS WHO DID SCORE THOSE.

SO WE TOOK, OR I TOOK, THE AVERAGE OF THOSE THREE THAT SCORED TO COME TO THE 3%. I'M NOT SURE THAT WAS THE CORRECT WAY TO DO IT, BUT IT WAS THE MOST LOGICAL IN MY MIND. AGAIN, THE SAME WAS TRUE FOR POLICE. THERE WAS A SCORE FROM THREE BOARD MEMBERS.

TO PROVIDE A COST OF LIVING.

SCALE ADJUSTMENT FOR POLICE THE AVERAGE OF THESE THREE IS TWO AND A HALF, AND THERE WAS NO CONSENSUS TO PROVIDE A COST OF LIVING SCALE ADJUSTMENT FOR NON PUBLIC SAFETY EMPLOYEES. I KNOW MR. WEBB MENTIONED THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO, IF FUNDING ALLOWS. STEP.

ON MY PART, I MISS. UM, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADD A SCORE NOW, MR. WEBB, TWO AND A HALF. THAT MAY TAKE YOU INTO THE RED, BUT WE CAN ADDRESS THAT. I'VE GOT SOMETHING ELSE TO MAKE THAT UP, I THINK.

OKAY. SO THE AVERAGE OF THESE THREE WOULD BECOME 2.3. I BELIEVE I JUST ROUNDED THIS ONE TO... 3 TO THE AVERAGE IS 2.3, WHICH WE COULD ROUND DOWN TO 2, OR ROUND UP TO 2 AND A HALF. I WILL LEAVE IT AT 2.3 FOR NOW.

BRINGS THAT COST UP. SO, AGAIN, THAT WILL CHANGE THE POSITION COSTS HERE FOR EACH BOARD MEMBER. THERE WAS ONLY CLEAR CONSENSUS, OR THERE WAS ONLY CONSENSUS TO RECLASSIFY ONE POSITION ON THIS LIST, AND THAT WAS A POLICE LIEUTENANT TO CAPTAIN. AS FAR AS ADDITIONAL POSITIONS...

THERE WAS CONSENSUS, AS MS. PUDLOW MENTIONED, TO ADD A POLICE DEPARTMENT RECORDS CLERK. NO CONSENSUS TO ADD A PARKS AND REC PART-TIME REGULAR SPECIAL ACTIVITIES ASSISTANT OR ANY POLICE OFFICERS. NO

[00:25:02]

THERE WAS NO CONSENSUS FOR THE POSITIONS THAT, SHE ADDED. HOWEVER, THERE WAS CONSENSUS TO RESTORE SOME PART-TIME WAGES FOR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND CODE COMPLIANCE, SINCE THE FULL-TIME ENVIRONMENTAL SPECIALIST POSITION WAS NOT ADDED. AND THERE WAS CONSENSUS, AND MR. PEW, MR. PHILLIP PEW, I WENT AHEAD AND PUT THAT SAVINGS IN FOR YOU SINCE YOU DID FUND THE FULL-TIME POLICE RECORDS CLERK. SO THAT WOULD BE A REDUCTION IN PART-TIME WAGES FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. AND THAT WAS IT FOR POSITION REQUESTS.

BY CONSENSUS, LEAVES U.S.

$40,103 IN THE RED. THERE WERE SOME NON-SALARY ITEMS THAT THERE WAS CONSENSUS TO ADD.

THERE WAS CONSENSUS TO INCREASE THE GENERAL FUND TRANSFER FOR SCHOOL BUSES BY $81,090.

THAT WOULD TAKE THE SCHOOL BUS REQUEST, OR THE SCHOOL BUS CAPITAL LINE ITEM, TO $624,464. THERE WERE SOME SCORES TO FUND THE TEMPLE PARK COURT IMPROVEMENTS, AND I BELIEVE MR. WEBB MENTIONED THAT HE WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF THAT USING TOURISM FUNDS, SO WE JUST WANTED TO SEEK CLARIFICATION FROM THOSE WHO DID SCORE IT AS A YES, WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANTED TO USE GENERAL FUND OR CONSIDER USING TOURISM FUNDS. TOURISM FUNDS. WE'LL SAY TOURISM IF WE CAN. OKAY. SO WE CAN ACTUALLY TAKE THAT OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND DOLLARS THEN AND MAKE A NOTE THAT THERE IS CONSENSUS.

OR IS THERE CONSENSUS TO USE TOURISM FUNDS FOR THAT PROJECT? I KNOW, MR. WEBB, YOU MENTIONED THAT TO ME ON THE PHONE. OKAY. I SHORT-CIRCUITED ALL THREE OF THEM. I PUT IT IN THERE BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO AND HOW IT WAS GOING TO PLAY OUT. AND I'M ASSUMING THEY CAN HANDLE IT. YES, SIR.

AND I'M IN CONSENSUS WITH THAT, TOO. I DIDN'T PUT IT IN BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT IT COMING OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND. OKAY.

OKAY. SO I AM GOING TO TAKE THE YESES OUT. BUT MAKE A NOTE THAT THERE IS CONSENSUS TO USE TOURISM FUNDS, WHICH FREES UP RESOURCES.

OKAY. AS MS. PUDLOW MENTIONED, THERE WAS NO CONSENSUS TO GENERAL FUND THE DEPARTMENT STRATEGIC PLANS. THAT CAN CERTAINLY BE A FUTURE DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER TO FUND THAT WITH ONE-TIME FUNDS. THERE WAS CONSENSUS TO ADD THE GARAGE AIR COMPRESSOR AND THE TIRE MACHINE. THERE WAS NO MENTION OR SCORING TO REPLACE THE ATV. THAT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT COULD BE FUNDED WITH TOURISM FUNDS.

MEDICAL SERVICES OR TO INCREASE THE DOLLAR AMOUNT FOR PHYSICALS, THERE WAS NO CONSENSUS THERE.

MS. DRURY? YES. MS. CHAIR? YES, SIR. GO BACK TO THE GARAGE EQUIPMENT, PLEASE. THE TOTAL AMOUNT FOR THOSE THREE ITEMS IS...

THE TWO ITEMS THAT WERE ON THIS LIST, WE HAD INCLUDED ONE AS A MUST-DO. THE TWO THAT

[00:30:02]

OKAY. EQUIPMENT THE GARAGE NEEDS SERVICES, ALL THE EQUIPMENT. IT'S COMING OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND, CORRECT? YES, SIR. IT WOULD.

OKAY. AND WE'VE STILL GOT $100,000 AND SOME THOUSAND IN CONTINGENCY, RIGHT? YES, SIR. IT JUST STANDS RIGHT THERE. SO THERE'S TWO PLACES.

IT JUST SHORTENS $10.5 MILLION.

OKAY. I'D BE IN. OKAY, SO I HAVE CHANGED YOUR SCORES.

OKAY, SO THERE'S STILL CONSENSUS FOR THAT. AND THERE WAS NO CONSENSUS FOR ANY OTHER NON-SALARY LINE ITEM OR AVAILABLE FUNDING. I KNOW THAT THERE WERE CERTAIN FIRE AND EMS REQUESTS. THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE FUNDED WITH ANOTHER SOURCE OF FUNDING. I KNOW THAT. A LIST OF STATION 8 NEEDS IS IN DEVELOPMENT, ALONG WITH SOME OTHER FUNDING AVAILABILITY FROM THE ONE PENNY AND THE TWO PENNY EQUIPMENT AND APPARATUS FUNDS IN THE CAPITAL FUND. CAN WE GO BACK UP REAL QUICK? SURE. SO, MR. CHAIR, THIS IS DIRECTED TO THE BOARD. I DIDN'T PUT ANYTHING FOR THIS, BUT MY THOUGHTS IS WE'VE GOT 2.5 LEFT OVER FROM A STATION 5 BARN WE DID TO REPLACE THAT STATION. BOTH STATION 5 AND STATION 8 NEEDS, LIKE STATION 8 NEEDS A BATHROOM, CARPET, WHAT HAVE YOU. STATION 5 NEEDS A NEW KITCHEN AND SOME UPDATING TO SOME LIVING QUARTERS, I BELIEVE, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE IT MORE FUNCTIONAL FOR A CAREER AND VOLUNTEER. I WOULD, YOU KNOW. BE OKAY ONCE WE GET DOWN THE LINE, WE DON'T HAVE TO DO IT TODAY.

BUT MY THOUGHT PROCESS IS EITHER TAKE THAT TWO AND A HALF MILLION AND TAKE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S PROBABLY PENNIES ON THE DOLLARS. WHICH TALKING MAYBE A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR EACH STATION TO GET THOSE, UH, FACILITIES UP TO PAR AND MORE USABLE TO THE PEOPLE LIVING THERE, UM, IS MY THOUGHT PROCESS ON IT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REST OF THE BOARD FEELS, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK WE SHOULD LOOK AT WITH CURRENT FUNDS THAT WE HAVE. I AGREE. I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT PROVIDING THE QUOTES COME IN, RIGHT? YEP. I AGREE. I MEAN, WE JUST NEED A LIST OF WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AND GET THE QUOTES, SO I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. YES, SIR. OKAY. I DON'T WANT TO DO IT AND THEN CHECK UP SHORT. I AGREE. AND WE COULD DO THAT OUTSIDE OF THE BUDGET ADOPTION PROCESS, SINCE IT IS NOT REALLY A BUDGET CONSIDERATION, BUT USE OF FUNDING ON HAND AND THE CAPITAL FUND.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING I DID NOTICE, AND I DIDN'T SCORE A LOT OF THIS STUFF. BECAUSE, TO ME, THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN ADDRESS AFTER WE GET THE BUDGET HAMMERED IN TO DO A LOT OF THESE ONE-TIME EXPENDITURES.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO SKIPPING DOWN, MR. PEW, MR. PHILLIP PEW HAD ADDED A FEW THINGS. MR. FORD, PUGH AND MR. HAMILL, I BELIEVE, MAY HAVE WORKED TOGETHER TO ADD ANOTHER LISTING. I AM GOING TO SKIP THOSE FOR NOW AND COME BACK TO THEM IF THE BOARD DOESN'T HAVE OBJECTIONS. AS MS. PUDLOW MENTIONED, WE DID FIND SOME SAVINGS WITHIN DEPARTMENT BUDGETS.

MS. GUYER, OUR BUDGET MANAGER, REACHED OUT TO OUR OR IDENTIFIED SOME POSSIBILITIES, REACHED OUT TO DEPARTMENT HEADS AND WENT BACK AND FORTH, AND WE DID FIND SAVINGS OF $24,148. I'M SORRY, I BELIEVE. THE POWERPOINT HAD IT AT 21, BUT IT WAS $24,148.

SO I'M HAPPY TO SCORE EACH OF YOU AS A YES. I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU WOULDN'T SAVE THAT MONEY BY SCORING THEM AS A YES. BUT THERE WERE SOME OPPORTUNITIES TO REDUCE CERTAIN LINE ITEMS. WITHIN MULTIPLE DEPARTMENTS' BUDGETS. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE ALL HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THOSE, BUT THEY TOTAL 24,148. I'M GOOD WITH IT. I'M FINE WITH IT AS WELL. YES. OKAY.

FORGE. I'M GOOD. WERE THOSE TWO POSITIVE, THE ROW 373 AND 374, WERE INCREASES YOU FOUND IN THE SAME? THEY WERE.

CERTAIN DEPARTMENTS HAD NOT

[00:35:01]

EXPENDITURES WERE EXPECTED TO BE HIGHER THAN WHAT THEY'D ACTUALLY INCLUDED, SO THERE WERE SOME INCREASES COMBINED WITH THESE WHERE WE NOTICED THAT WE ARE LIKELY GOING TO GO OVER BUDGET THIS YEAR, BUT THERE WERE ONLY A FEW INCREASES. WERE THERE ANY OF THESE THAT OVERLAP, THE ONES THAT ME AND HAMILL SENT? NO. OKAY. NO, WE DID DOUBLE CHECK THAT, TOO.

THANKS. AND THEN ONE THING THAT I WANT TO RECONCILE IS THE MONEY FOR THE PART-TIME GRASS CUTTING FOR PARKS AND REC VERSUS THE CONTRACTING IT OUT. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I DIDN'T DOUBLE THAT UP IN MY LINE. SCORE YOU A CS, TOO. OKAY. AHEM. AND THEN THE LAST LINE ITEM BEFORE WE GO BACK UP WAS IN-HOUSE MEDICAL.

AS YOU KNOW, CHIEF CACERES BROUGHT AN AWARD OF CONTRACT TO YOU AT LAST WEEK'S BOARD MEETING.

THE THIRD PARTY PROVIDED AN ESTIMATE, AND I HAVE A FEELING IT IS JUST AN ESTIMATE AT THIS POINT. I DIDN'T KNOW THE COMFORT LEVEL. BASED ON THEIR... THEY HAVE PRETTY VAST EXPERIENCE IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBER OF CALLS AND WHAT THAT ESTIMATED REVENUE COULD POTENTIALLY LOOK LIKE.

BUT THEY DID ESTIMATE ABOUT $1.1 MILLION, TAKING THEIR FEE OFF THE TOP. IT WOULD BE JUST OVER $1,047,000 TO ALLOW SOME MARGIN FOR ERROR. YOU COULD INCREASE THE BUDGET TO $1 MILLION, WHICH IS $160,000 OVER. THE 840 IT IS BUDGETED AT TODAY.

SO I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE WAS COMFORT OR CONSENSUS NOW. I GOT A CONCERN. BIRD IN THE HANDS, WE'RE TWO IN THE BUSH. WE CAN ALWAYS COME BACK AND MAKE AN AMENDMENT ONCE WE START SEEING SOME REAL DATA. ME PERSONALLY, I'M UNCOMFORTABLE MAKING THE DECISION ON OPENING A PRAYER. I'M GOING TO AGREE. I THINK IT'S TIME TO BE CONSERVATIVE, SO LEAVE IT OUT FOR ME. I WOULD ACTUALLY ARGUE THE OTHER WAY.

WHY WOULD WE NOT INCLUDE THAT? THERE'S NO GUARANTEE. WE SHOULD SET A GOAL TO AIM FOR, SHOULD WE NOT? WE'RE GOING TO COME UP SHORT A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS. IT'S SOMETHING YOU CAN AMEND THE OTHER WAY. WHY WOULD WE NOT SET THE GOAL TO HIT IT? WHERE WOULD YOU GET IT AT? IT'S THE $160,000 THAT'S HERE. OKAY. WELL, I'M JUST, I'VE GOT CONCERNS I'M NOT IN AGREEMENT WITH. WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE. I WOULD ASK, WHY WOULD WE NOT SET THE BAR TO HIT? IF WE'RE GOING TO FALL A FEW THOUSAND SHORT, YOU CAN ADJUST THAT AT THE END. AT THE END, WE'RE GOING TO END UP WITH MONEY NOT ALLOCATED. SO I WOULD SUPPORT MAYBE USING THAT MONEY FOR A ONE-TIME EXPENDITURE, NOT A REOCCURRING COST. BUT THEN YOU WOULD MISS ALLOCATING IT AT THIS POINT. WELL, WE'RE HOPING WE'RE GOING TO HIT, I THINK, WHAT WAS IT, $840? $840 IS WHERE OUR BUDGET IS TODAY.

CORRECT. AND WE HAVEN'T BEEN TAKING IN THAT REVENUE, AM I CORRECT IN THAT STATEMENT? THERE IS A DELAY. WE ARE BACKLOGGED IN BILLING. RIGHT. I THINK IF WE WERE CAUGHT UP, WE WOULD CERTAINLY MAKE THAT MARK.

RIGHT. AND THIS THIRD PARTY PROBABLY WILL EXPAND OUR OPPORTUNITY FOR BILLABLE TRANSACTIONS, OR GETTING THOSE BILLS APPROVED.

SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IS, IF YOU'RE THINKING YOU'RE GOING TO SPEND $160,000 ON ONE TIMELINE ITEM NOW, YOU'RE ALREADY SAYING THAT YOU'RE EXPECTING TO DO THAT LATER. WHY WOULDN'T

[00:40:01]

I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO AMENDMENTS ONCE WE GET THE NUMBERS FROM THE STATE.

ABSOLUTELY. SO WE CAN'T, I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF LIKE, WE THINK WE KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO GIVE US, BUT WE DON'T KNOW UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY SEND THEM TO MS. DRURY AND WE KNOW FOR SURE. I'M OLD SCHOOL, I'M JUST NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. I'M AGREEING, I JUST, I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE BETTING ON WHAT'S TO COME. I MEAN, FROM... WE DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL.

FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THE 1.1 NUMBER IS ALREADY A CONSERVATIVE NUMBER. MR. PUGH, I THINK YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT THERE WAS NUMBERS YOU WERE EXPECTING CLOSER TO 1.5, RIGHT? YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING. SO 1.1, ALTHOUGH I DO UNDERSTAND IT'S COMING FROM A PARTNER THAT WE'RE GOING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE STARTING A PARTNERSHIP WITH, THEY'RE RECOMMENDING A 1.1. I WOULD IMAGINE THAT NUMBER'S ALREADY LOW, AND THEN FOR US TO DO 160 INSTEAD OF THE 207,000, I THINK, IS THE DIFFERENCE FROM CURRENT TO... EXPECTED, THE 1.047. WE'VE GOT A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE ON A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE, WHICH I THINK, TO YOUR POINT, IF YOU'RE SAYING, IF WE COME UP WITH IT LATER, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A ONE-TIME EXPENSE, I WOULD LIKE US TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION NOW.

THEN, IF THAT ONE-TIME EXPENSE IS IMPORTANT ENOUGH. SIX MONTHS FROM NOW, IT SHOULD BE SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT NOW, I WOULD THINK, OR 10 MONTHS FROM NOW. YOU'RE CERTAINLY NOT TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO ALLOCATE IT TO SOMETHING THAT'S REOCCURRING, CORRECT? NO, SIR. BUT IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BALANCE YOUR BUDGET. I'LL SAY THIS ONCE, AND THIS IS JUST ME, ONCE WE ESTABLISH WHAT THAT IS TAKING IN, YOU KNOW, AFTER A YEAR OR TWO YEAR AVERAGE, I WOULD BE OKAY WITH EARMARKING THAT FOR A REOCCURRING COST FOR FIRING EMS PERSONALLY.

RIGHT.

BUT IF THE RECOMMENDATION, WHICH MOST RECOMMENDATIONS I'VE SEEN UP TO THIS POINT, HAVE BEEN VERY CONSERVATIVE, AND I APPRECIATE THAT SORT OF DILIGENCE. THE RECOMMENDATION IS ALREADY CONSERVATIVE TO ADD $160,000.

SO YOU'RE NOW BEING TRIPLE. I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. YOU'RE THREE TIMES CONSERVATIVE ON A NUMBER. CAN I GET A POINT OF CLARIFICATION? THIS IS A REVENUE ITEM. CORRECT. WE'RE DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT TO RECOGNIZE AN ADDITIONAL $160,000 IN REVENUE. CORRECT. I WOULD INCREASE YOUR RESOURCES BY $160,000. WHICH IS WHY I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF ADDING IT, BECAUSE IF WE PUT IT IN THERE, I THINK WE'LL SPEND IT. WELL, WE CAN ALSO CUT IT. CORRECT.

TWO. I KNOW WHERE YOU PUT IT.

CORRECT. I WOULD SAY, LET'S, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT DONE.

SPEAKING ABOUT THE BUDGET, I WOULD PUT THAT ON THE ICE, KNOWING, HEY, WE GOT 160, POSSIBLY THAT WE CAN TAP INTO.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? SO I'D FINISH THE BUDGET OUT WHERE WE'RE AT, AND IF WE NEED TO TAP INTO THAT 160 CONSERVATIVE NUMBER, WHICH I'M IN AGREEANCE WITH MR. HAMILL, THAT IS A CONSERVATIVE NUMBER. I THINK OUR REVENUES ARE GOING TO BE HIGHER THAN THAT. I LIKE A POSITIVE SURPRISE, TOO, BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND HIS CONCERN THAT IF WE DON'T TRY TO REALIZE THE FULL VALUE, WE'RE SETTING THE BAR LOW ON COLLECTIONS. CORRECT. WE NEED TO SET A GOAL, AND WE NEED TO TRY TO HIT THAT GOAL. ONE THING Y'ALL ARE MISSING, YOU CAN SET YOUR GOAL WHEREVER YOU WANT, BUT IF WE DON'T HAVE THE TRANSPORTS AND THE MEDICAL CALLS, IT DOESN'T MAKE NO DIFFERENCE WHAT WE GET, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT'S BASED OFF OF. SO IF WE HAVE A TREND DOWN.

ON MEDICAL TRANSPORTS AND CALLS IN THIS COUNTY, IT'S GOING TO AFFECT THIS. I THINK THAT'S ALREADY BAKED INTO YOUR 1.1 MILLION NUMBER. NO, MR. COX IS TALKING ABOUT EVERYTHING CAN BE CYCLICAL. ABSOLUTELY. IT STARTS TRENDING DOWN, AND WE BASE IT ON THIS RIGHT HERE, AND WE CHECK UP SHORT. WHERE ARE YOU GOING? BUT I'M SAYING... WE DON'T HAVE ANY DATA TO BASE ON WHAT THE AVERAGE SHOULD BE, SCOTT. BUT, MR. WEBB, I'M SAYING THAT I THINK THAT DOWNTURN IS ALREADY BAKED INTO YOUR 1.1 NUMBER. OKAY. I'M CONSERVATIVE, BUT I'M NOT QUITE THAT CONSERVATIVE. I WILL TELL YOU THIS. IF IT'S ANYTHING, PUBLIC SAFETY AIN'T ON A DOWNWARD. IT'S GOING TO SPIKE EVEN HIGHER. SO MORE PEOPLE ARE CALLING 911 EVERY DAY. I'LL SAY THAT. WE GET THAT IN THE REPORTS. AND I AGREE.

AND THAT'S MY BIGGEST CONCERN BECAUSE WE'VE GOT DEMANDS OUT THERE THAT WE'RE STRUGGLING TO MEET NOW. I AGREE.

BUT THEY'RE REOCCURRING. WHEN WE GO BACK UP, I'M GOING TO. I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU SOMETHING, TOO, THAT I PUT IN THAT MAY HELP US MAKE THAT DECISION A LITTLE EASIER. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. SO WE WILL, MR. HAMILL, DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT YOU AS A YES FOR THAT? YES, PLEASE. OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. THAT IS DONE AND THAT ADDED TO YOUR RESOURCES.

SO GOING GOING BACK UP NOW TO TO THIS LIST, AND I DO. I KNEW THERE THERE WAS A LOT OF INFORMATION IN THE A LOT OF LINE ITEMS, IN THE IN THE ITEMS THAT MR. HAMILL

[00:45:02]

AND THAT WOULD FREE UP SOME OF THEIR EMPLOYEES. AND I THINK THE COST WAS A SAVINGS BY CONTRACTING IT OUT, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. I THINK IT WAS ABOUT A $4,000 INCREASE. IT WAS. BUT WE'RE NOT MAINTAINING MOWERS, AND WE'RE NOT REPLACING A MOWER. CORRECT. AND FUEL AT $4 A GALLON, OR IF YOU BUY DIESEL, $5. YEP. SO THAT WAS A RECOMMENDATION, AS WAS FUNDING A MEDIC USING PART-TIME PERSONNEL. SO HERE'S WHAT I'M GOING TO PRESENT, MR. CHAIR, AND THE BOARD. DEBT AND BETSY, IF YOU THINK THAT'S A FAIR ESTIMATE, YOU TELL ME.

BUT $200,000, THAT WILL GIVE US, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE'VE GOT MUTUAL AID COMING INTO THE COUNTY. IT'S NOT AN EVERYDAY OCCURRENCE, BUT IT DOES HAPPEN. AND THAT IS A TRANSPORT THAT COULD BE BILLED OFF OF THAT 160 REVENUE, OR THAT 1.1 MILLION REVENUE.

THAT WOULD BE AN INCREASE. I SUGGEST WE RUN THIS AS A PILOT PROGRAM, WHETHER IT'S SIX MONTHS, WHETHER IT'S 12 MONTHS.

AND WE CAN FUND IT OUT OF GENERAL FUND IF YOU WANT TO, BUT WE CAN DO IT AS A ONE-TIME EXPENDITURE. AND SEE WHAT KIND OF EFFECT IT HAS ON THE SYSTEM. AND IF IT HAS A GOOD EFFECT, THEN IT WILL REFLECT IN THE EMS BILLING. IT WILL REFLECT IN THE SERVICE, BUT THEN EMS BILLING CAN COVER IT.

AND IF WE DO IT OUT OF THE ONE-TIME GENERAL FUND AND WE HAVE A WINDFALL ON THE EMS BILLING, I'M OPEN TO SAYING THAT WE TAKE THAT MONEY AND PUT IT BACK IN THE GENERAL FUND.

OF WHAT WE USED OUT TO START THE PILOT PROGRAM. I'D BE INCLINED TO CONSIDER THAT. AND JUST TO PROVIDE SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, YOU HAD ASKED THAT WE HAVE TWO INDIVIDUALS ON THE MEDIC. YES, MA'AM.

TWELVE HOURS A DAY, FIVE DAYS A WEEK. SO THAT'S...

60 HOURS TIMES, TWO EVERY WEEK. YES, MA'AM.

WITH OUR EXISTING POOL OF PART-TIME FOLKS, IT MAY BE CHALLENGING TO STAFF THAT EVERY DAY. AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S NOT RIGHT. YOU'RE NOT WRONG. BUT WE DON'T HAVE EMS ONLY CURRENTLY.

THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE DEVELOPED. A LOT OF LOCALITIES ARE GOING TO THAT, AND THERE'S A BIG POOL IN EMS ONLY. AND WE HAVE A COST SAVINGS. BY NOT HAVING TO BUY TURNOUT GEAR, SEND THEM TO TRAINING, BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY TRAINED, WHETHER THEY'RE EMTB, IA, OR PARAMEDIC. AND I BASED THAT NUMBER OFF THE HIGHEST, OFF THE TWO, SO IT WAS 30. AND I ALSO DID A STUDY OF WHAT OTHER LOCALITIES ARE PAYING AND WHAT OTHER LOCALITIES ARE GOING TO, AND THIS IS IN COMPARISON WITH THOSE LOCALITIES.

BUT IF YOU'D LIKE SOMEBODY TO FACT-CHECK ME, I WELCOME IT. CHALLENGING FACTOR, I'M GOING TO ASK QUESTIONS. CHIEF KARRAS, KNOWLEDGEABLE OF THIS? YOU CAN ASK. I THINK HE WANTS TO COMMENT ON IT. I MEAN, IT'S HIS DEPARTMENT. I AGREE.

WHILE HE'S COMING, ONE THING I WANTED TO SAY. WE ALWAYS GET WRAPPED AROUND MUTUAL AID COMING INTO THIS COUNTY, BUT WE'RE GOING OUT OF THIS COUNTY QUITE A BIT, SERVING MUTUAL AID AS WELL. SO I WOULD SAY IT'S 50-50 BOTH WAYS, WOULD YOU NOT, CHIEF SIQUEIROS, THAT WE GO OUT JUST AS MUCH AS WE CALL PEOPLE IN? GOOD EVENING. YES, IT IS DEFINITELY A TWO-WAY STREET.

THANKS, SIR. WE GET THE BILLING FROM THOSE, CORRECT, WHEN WE TRANSPORT? IF WE TRANSPORT, YES. YES. YES.

WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS? ABOUT THE EMS ONLY? YES, SIR.

SO I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THE IDEA. IT WILL REQUIRE A LITTLE BIT OF AN INVESTMENT ON OUR PART. AS FAR AS TRYING TO FIND ENOUGH FOLKS IN THE AREA THAT WILL BE INTERESTED IN PROVIDING THAT PART-TIME.

SO IT WILL TAKE US A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO HIRE AND THEN BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT. SO AT FIRST IT MAY BE A COUPLE DAYS, THREE DAYS, UNTIL WE CAN BUILD ENOUGH STAFFING. THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE ALSO WORKING PARTS OF HR TO DO THE SALARY STUDY.

[00:50:03]

NECESSARILY HAVE. SO IT'S GOING TO, WHETHER WE GET SOME MEDICS ON OVERTIME TO THEN RIDE WITH THESE MEDICS, OR WE PUT THEM WITH THE REGULAR STAFF.

UNTIL WE GET ENOUGH PEOPLE THROUGH THE PROCESS FOR THEM TO THEN BE ON THEIR OWN.

YOU'RE CORRECT THAT A LOT OF JURISDICTIONS ARE GOING TO EMS ONLY. THEY ARE A LITTLE BIT LESS EXPENSIVE. AND THAT'S, I MEAN, IT'S NOT A BAD IDEA.

OVERALL, IT JUST IS GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF WORK TO TRY TO GET IT GOING. I WILL CAUTION THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT. THE TIMING OF STARTING THE NEW EMS BILLING AND A NEW EMS PROGRAM, WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL AS TO WHAT'S ACTUALLY CREATING THE UPSWING OR NOT ON OUR REVENUES, MEANING, IS THE ADDITIONAL REVENUE GENERATED BECAUSE OF THE EMS BILLING, OR IS IT BECAUSE OF... THE NEW EMS PROVIDERS. SO IT DEPENDS ON ALSO HOW WE IMPLEMENT IT. I THINK WE'VE SORT OF BRIEFLY TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS. IF IT IS A FIFTH MEDIC THAT'S IN SERVICE, IT WILL HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF EFFECT. IF IT'S A CREW THAT THEN ALLOWS ANOTHER CAREER STATION TO UP STAFF ONTO THE ENGINE, THEN THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT MODEL. WE REALLY DON'T GAIN A LOT MORE. SO, AGAIN, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF CONVERSATION IN LOGISTICS THAT WE'LL HAVE TO GO INTO SOME OF THAT, SOME LITTLE ADDITIONAL PLANNING.

BUT HAVING SAID ALL THAT, AGAIN, I'M NOT NECESSARILY OPPOSED TO THE IDEA. ALL RIGHT, WELL, WHILE YOU'RE UP HERE, CHIEF, MR. CHAIR, IF YOU DON'T MIND, JUST TO KIND OF TOUCH BASE ON IT REAL QUICK, THIS IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT A VOLUNTEER MEDIC. OR BLS PROVIDER WITH A PARAMEDIC COULD AUGMENT AS WELL, CORRECT? YES. WE DO DO THAT OCCASIONALLY, WHERE WE HAVE SOME SYSTEM VOLUNTEERS, WE CALL THEM, AND THEY HAVE BEEN WRITING OUT WITH OUR CAREER STAFF. EITHER AUGMENT OR JUST HAVE AN ADDITIONAL MEDIC, DEPENDING ON THEIR QUALIFICATIONS. I'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CHIEF AND A LOT OF CAREER STAFF. ONE OF THE DOWNFALLS OF THIS SYSTEM, AND ME AND MR. WEBB WERE TALKING ABOUT IT EARLIER, RIGHT NOW, THERE'S ONLY TWO PEOPLE AT A STATION, AT THREE OF THE STATIONS, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT FIVE AT EIGHT, CORRECT? WITH THE NEW STAFFING, ONCE THE NEW STAFFING COMES IN, WE'LL BE IN A LOT BETTER SHAPE THAN WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS IS WE HAVE A HIGH EMS CALL VOLUME, RIGHT? SO THOSE NEW INDIVIDUALS, THOSE NEW ROOKIES, FIREFIGHTERS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF THE RECRUIT SCHOOL, THEY'VE GOT MINIMUM TRAINING, BASIC TRAINING, RIGHT? YOU'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO TRAIN AND PERFECT THEIR CRAFT. FOLLOW ME? THE OTHER REASON I WANTED TO PROPOSE THIS IS IT NOT ONLY GIVES THE ABILITY FOR, LET'S JUST, FOR INSTANCE, STATION 5 IS THE HIGHEST CALL VOLUME OF EMS. WHEN YOU PUT A NEW PERSON AT THAT STATION, THEY'RE ON THE MEDIC, THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO PULL HOSE, THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO GET ON THE FIRE TRUCK. AND GO DO TRAINING WITH ANOTHER CAREER UNIT AND OR A VOLUNTEER UNIT, IF THEY'RE ALWAYS CONSTANTLY RUNNING EMS. ABOUT CREATING THIS PROGRAM HERE.

DURING THE DAY 12 HOURS. IT WOULD GIVE THEM THE ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO GET ON THAT UNIT AND GO TRAIN, POSSIBLY RUN A CALL IF NEEDED.

BUT IF OUR SYSTEM GOT DEPLETED, THEY COULD ALWAYS GO BACK TO CROSS STAFFING THAT MEDIC.

SO, FOR INSTANCE, IF WE HAD WE'VE GOT FOUR UNITS NOW, WELL, HOPEFULLY WITH NEW STAFFING, WILL HAVE FOUR UNITS IN A ENGINE. IF WE DO THIS, WE'LL HAVE A FIFTH MEDIC, RIGHT? WELL, THAT FIFTH MEDIC COULD BE AT A STATION. LET'S SAY STATION FIVE, AND IT RUNS THE EMS CALL. WELL, IF THEY'RE OUT ON ENGINE FIVE, THEY'RE GOING TO BE TRAINING OR RUN A CALL, WHAT HAVE YOU. IF ALL THE OTHER UNITS ARE ON EMS CALL, THEY COULD ALSO DOWNGRADE AND GET BACK ON THE MEDIC. AND RUN AN EMS CALL IF IT WARRANTED. IT CAN GO BACK TO A DUAL STAFFING MODEL.

CORRECT. YES. SO THAT'S THE THOUGHT PROCESS THAT I HAVE ABOUT IT, BUT THAT'S KIND OF WHY I'M PUSHING FOR IT, TOO. BECAUSE I THINK IT WOULD HAVE A GREAT EFFECT

[00:55:02]

BECAUSE ANYTHING THAT CAN HELP WITH THE CALL VOLUME. TAKE THE STRESS OFF. YEAH, GET PEOPLE THE HELP THEY NEED IN A TIMELY FASHION, I'M FINE WITH IT. WE JUST NEED TO WORK THROUGH THE LOGISTICS OF HIRING, IMPLEMENTING, PRECEPTING, ALL OF THAT, ALL OF THOSE THINGS. DO YOU THINK US CATCHING UP ON BILLING WILL IMPACT CALL BALL?ONCE WE CATCH UP ON BILLING, DO YOU THINK PEOPLE WILL CALL LESS AS A RESULT OF, HEY, NOW I'M GETTING BILLED AND THEY'RE CALLING? NO, NO. ALL RIGHT. THE CALLS ARE COMING.

GOOD. A LOT OF THAT'S MEDICAID, MEDICARE, THINGS LIKE THAT. INSURANCE COMPANIES, MEDICARE, MEDICAID. YEAH, PEOPLE, WHEN YOU HAVE AN EMERGENCY, PEOPLE WILL CALL.

YEAH. NOW, CHIEF, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, WE HAVE A PROGRAM WHERE IF THE CITIZENS WANTED TO, THEY COULD PAY A FEE. AND GET A REDUCED RATE. THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY, SO I MEAN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ADVERTISE, TOO. IT'S A SUBSCRIPTION PROGRAM WHERE THEY PAY A YEARLY FEE. I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE AMOUNT IS RIGHT NOW. I THINK IT MIGHT HAVE JUST CHANGED. AND THEN WE ONLY BILL THEIR INSURANCE COMPANY, AND IF THERE'S ANYTHING LEFT OVER, WE DON'T BILL ANYTHING AT ALL BEYOND THAT. AND THEY PAY, WHETHER THEY USE IT OR NOT. SO IT'S KIND OF ONE OF THOSE FAIL-SAFE, YOU KNOW. I PAY FORWARD.

YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. ASIDE FROM THE EMS BILLING PIECE OF THIS, HOW DO YOU MEASURE THE SUCCESS OF THIS SORT OF PROGRAM? AND WHAT WOULD SUCCESS LOOK LIKE IN A YEAR FROM NOW, AFTER WE TRY THIS? AGAIN, ASIDE FROM EMS BILLING. THAT'S IF WE CAN MAKE SURE WE KEEP THE GUARDRAILS TO WHERE THE NUMBERS AREN'T GOING TO GET SKEWED BETWEEN THE BILLING AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO. THAT'S RIGHT. I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THE EFFECT TO THE SYSTEM, RIGHT, BECAUSE THAT'S YOUR MAIN THING, IS GETTING THE SYSTEM TO A GOOD, STABLE STATE. WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? HOW DO WE MEASURE THAT? BECAUSE $200,000, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY WE SAY X, Y, AND Z EQUALS THIS, THE $200,000 WAS WORTH IT, OR MAYBE NOT, OR MAYBE WE NEED TO DO MORE. WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? CAN I HELP YOU OUT, CHIEF? YEAH, WELL, I'M RUBBING MY HEAD AND I JUST REALIZED I WAS DOING THAT. MY WIFE ALWAYS GIVES ME A HARD TIME WHEN I DO THAT. IT'S LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT? THAT'S MY TELL. I WASN'T NECESSARY PLAN ON SPEAKING ON THIS, BUT I. MY INSTINCT, RIGHT OFF THE BAT, IS TO SAY THAT WE CAN REDUCE OUR OUT-OF-SERVICE TIME ON A FIRE APPARATUS, WHICH RIGHT NOW, WHEN THE MEDIC LEAVES FOR AN EXTENDED AMOUNT OF TIME, THAT ENGINE IS UNAVAILABLE. SO THAT WILL BE ONE QUICK WAY THAT WE CAN PROBABLY MEASURE THAT.

RESPONSE TIMES COULD BE AFFECTED BY A PROGRAM LIKE THAT, ESPECIALLY IF WE HAVE A FIFTH MEDIC, OR IF IF THE MEDIC IS OUT OF SERVICE AND THE ENGINE IS IN SERVICE. BECAUSE WE HAVE THE ADDITIONAL STAFFING, THE RESPONSE TIME SHOULD BE REDUCED FOR THAT AREA. SO WE SHOULD SEE A REDUCTION ONCE IT IS FULLY IMPLEMENTED, I WOULD IMAGINE. I HAVE TO THINK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT IT, BUT I THINK OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I THINK THOSE ARE TWO MEASUREMENTS THAT WE CAN EASILY TRY TO TRACK AFTER WE IMPLEMENT THE PART-TIME MEDICS. AND I APPRECIATE THE ANSWER. YOU GAVE AN ANSWER TO SOMETHING THAT WASN'T YOUR IDEA, SO THAT'S ACTUALLY GOOD. MR. PUGH, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WERE THINKING OF AS FAR AS SUCCESS? SO AS FAR AS METRICS FOR ME, ONE, YOUR PROBATION PACKETS FOR YOUR NEW INDIVIDUALS, THEY WOULD BE GETTING COMPLETED FASTER, AND THEN YOU'D BE ABLE TO LOG TRAINING HOURS,

[01:00:02]

AND THEN ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, BY ADDING ANOTHER UNIT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A POSITIVE EFFECT.

YOU'VE GOT TO. I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYBODY THAT DIDN'T ADD SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T HAVE A POSITIVE EFFECT. AND LIKE I SAID, THIS IS A PILOT PROGRAM. I THINK IT'S WORTH IT TO DO IT. MR. COX, I DON'T KNOW IF SIX MONTHS IS ENOUGH TIME TO GIVE IT. IF WE DO SIX MONTHS, I WOULD SAY, LET'S GET IT STARTED AND HAVE A DATE THAT WE GO, HEY, WE'RE EFFICIENT, WE'VE GOT AN EXTRA 20 EMS-ONLY PART-TIME, AND THEN GO, OKAY, FROM THIS DATE WE'RE GOING TO DO OUR SIX MONTHS. WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST INDICATORS IS GOING TO BE, ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO STAFF THE UNITS FIVE DAYS A WEEK? YEAH, THAT'S ALSO A QUESTION ON MY MIND, BUT YEAH, IF WE HAVE THE RESOURCES. AND AGAIN, IF WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THESE POSITIONS, IT WOULD ALSO HELP US GAUGE WHETHER THAT CAN BE A FULL-TIME POSITION MOVING FORWARD. I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GETTING EVERYBODY ON BOARD. AND THEN STARTING AT THAT POINT WHEN IT GOES EFFECTIVE FOR SIX MONTHS TO SEE HOW WE DO. YEAH, AND JUST SO, YOU KNOW, IN MY FORMER DEPARTMENT, WE DID EXACTLY THAT. WE HAD CIVILIAN MEDICS. WE CALL THEM CIVILIAN MEDICS, BUT THEY WERE BASICALLY MEDICAL-ONLY. THEY WORKED 24-HOUR SHIFTS. SAME SHIFTS AS THE FIREFIGHTERS, SO EVERYBODY... HAD THE SAME TEAMWORK APPROACH, YOU KNOW, CRITICAL CALLS, ENGINE AND MEDICS WENT TOGETHER, AND THEY WORKED TOGETHER PRETTY WELL.

BUT THAT WAS THEIR AREA OF FOCUS. AND THEN IT ALLOWS FIREFIGHTERS TO TRAIN MORE AND STILL RESPOND TO MEDICAL CALLS, BUT IN A DIFFERENT CAPACITY, MORE OF A SUPPORT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I GUESS I COULD SUPPORT IT, GIVEN THE MEASUREMENTS THAT THE CHIEF'S GIVEN, AND WHAT, MR. PUGH HAS GIVEN ON THAT. I GUESS THE QUESTION WOULD BE IS, HOW WOULD WE FUND IT? BECAUSE THIS SOUNDS LIKE IT'S NOT A ONE-TIME COST, EVEN THOUGH YOU MIGHT CALL IT'S A PILOT. IT'S HERE THEIR SALARIES, SO YOU WOULD NEED TO HAVE A LINE ITEM HERE, THE TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND. AND THAT'S ASSUMING THAT OUR PAY STUDY DOESN'T COME BACK AND SAY IT'S NOT 20. IT'S 21 OR 22 OR WHAT HAVE YOU? SO I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE IS, HOW DO WE FUND IT? WHAT NUMBER NEEDS TO BE IN? CELL ZERO, TWO, NINETY, NINE. THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING, IF WE DO SIX MONTHS, WE'LL CUT THAT COST IN HALF TO RUN THE PILOT. CAN WE WORK? MAJOR NICKLAUS JUST PUT IN FOR A SAFETY FIRST GRANT FROM NORFOLK SOUTHERN. THEY ALSO SUPPORT FIRE AND EMS, SO THERE'S A LEVER THAT WE CAN PULL FOR FUNDING. FUND IT FOR SIX MONTHS AND THEN SEE IF WE CAN GET A SAFETY FIRST GRANT TO OFFSET THE REST OF THE YEAR.

I'M HOPING OUR EMS BILLING WOULD BE ABLE TO OFFSET IT IS MY GOAL. THE CONCERN I HAVE IS, IS, AT THE END OF THE SIX MONTHS, IF IT DOESN'T WORK, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A CREW OF FOLKS. THAT JOBS ARE GETTING READY TO GO AWAY. IT'S PART-TIME. IT'S PART-TIME.

IT'S PART-TIME. IT'S NOT FULL-TIME. SO IT'S NOT GUARANTEED HOURS. NO, AND THEY'D ONLY BE ABLE TO WORK 36 HOURS, 30 HOURS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO THREE DAYS A WEEK. NO, IF THEY'RE PART-TIME COMPLETELY WITH US, THERE ISN'T A LIMIT. HOWEVER, ANYTHING OVER 40 IS TIME AND A HALF. RIGHT. SO IF YOU ARE...

IF THE SAME INDIVIDUAL WORKED 60 HOURS, HALF OF THAT WOULD BE AT TIME AND A HALF. SO THE IDEAL WOULD BE THAT YOU HAD AT LEAST FOUR PEOPLE IN A WEEK, NONE OF THEM WORKING OVER 40. I DID HAVE ONE QUESTION. AMBULANCE, ARE THERE A SUFFICIENT NUMBER OF AMBULANCES TO ACCOMMODATE THAT, OR WOULD WE HAVE TO PURCHASE AN ADDITIONAL AMBULANCE? AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHAT MAYBE YOU WERE TRYING TO GET AT IS, COULD YOU USE THE 160 AND ADDED EMS BILLING REVENUE TO AUGMENT PART OF THAT? IF WE STARTED IT JANUARY TO ALLOW TIME TO INVESTIGATE, PURSUE GRANT OPPORTUNITIES, YOU COULD FUND HALF OF THAT.

YOU COULD FUND $100,000. AND AUGMENT THAT WITH AN INCREASE IN YOUR EMS BILLING REVENUE SO THAT IT'S BUDGET NEUTRAL. BUT I DIDN'T KNOW AMBULANCE. OR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S MORE FUEL. THOSE COSTS HAVEN'T BEEN FACTORED IN, AND UNIFORMS AS WELL. ALSO, IF YOU HAVE THEM GO OVER A CERTAIN NUMBER OF HOURS, ISN'T THERE BENEFITS CONSIDERATIONS? IF THEY START GOING CONSISTENTLY OVER 30, THREE HOURS A WEEK OR SOMETHING. IF IT WAS ONE PERSON, WE HAVE PART-TIME

[01:05:02]

THERE IS A LOOK-BACK PERIOD FOR THE ACA, AFFORDABLE CARE ACT. SO IT IS, I BELIEVE IT'S OVER 32 HOURS AND A CERTAIN LOOK-BACK PERIOD. YOU WOULD HAVE TO OFFER THEM PART-TIME HEALTH INSURANCE BENEFITS.

WHICH COULD DRIVE THIS LINE ITEM UP. IT COULD. SO WE LIMIT WHERE I'M EMPLOYED AT. YOU CAN ONLY WORK PART-TIME, YOU CAN ONLY WORK 32 HOURS A WEEK. RIGHT. THAT'S IT.

RIGHT. SO IN THIS MODEL, YOU WOULD ONLY WORK 220. SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO FIND FOUR FOLKS A WEEK TO DO 30 EACH. YEP. TO COME UP TO THE TWO PEOPLE WORKING 60.

RIGHT. SO YOU'D HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE ONLY WORKING.

AND THEN HERE'S THE OTHER KICKER. YOU CAN AUGMENT IT AS WELL WITH VOLUNTEERS AND OR CAREER STAFF. THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN THE SYSTEM IF YOU HAD A VACANCY. SO WHAT YOU WOULD DO IS YOU WOULD OFFER IT, ONCE YOUR PART-TIME POOL'S BUILT UP, YOU'D OFFER IT TO YOUR PART-TIME POOLS.

CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, WE DO OUR SCHEDULE IN 30 DAYS IN ADVANCE, CORRECT? YES. SO YOU WOULD SAY, OKAY, BY THE 15TH, IF I DON'T HAVE THE NEXT MONTH FILLED, I CAN AUGMENT IT WITH CAREER STAFF IF THEY WANTED TO PICK UP SOME OVERTIME. ONCE FULLY STAFFED, BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO OVERWORK ANYBODY EITHER.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I'M NOT ARGUING THAT THIS ISN'T A GOOD IDEA. I'M JUST MAKING SURE I UNDERSTAND DOES THAT NUMBER ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE OR NOT.

THAT'S THE ONLY, I THINK IT SOUNDS LIKE A FINE IDEA. I'M NOT SURE ABOUT WHETHER THE NUMBER MAKES SENSE OR NOT. I THINK THE IDEA IS WORTH EXPLORING AND IT WILL REQUIRE A LITTLE BIT OF ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATION.

AND MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE COVERING ALL THE POSSIBLE COSTS. JUST, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BROUGHT UP HERE LIKE THE AMBULANCE. I DON'T THINK FUEL WILL BE A BIG DEAL UNLESS THIS, YOU KNOW, ORDEAL CONTINUES.

BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY RUNNING.

YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE THREE AMBULANCES THAT WE'VE ORDERED.

WE DO WANT TO RECHASSIS A COUPLE AFTER THOSE THREE COME IN. WE HAVE SOME SPARE AMBULANCES. IF THEY HOLD UP, YEAH, THAT WOULD BE, WE WOULDN'T NEED AN ADDITIONAL ONE RIGHT OFF THE BAT. AND THEN WE CAN GAUGE THE USE AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF AND SEE WHERE WE'RE AT. YES, SIR. IT'S ALL GOOD IDEAS. I'D STILL LIKE TO SEE IT PLANNED FIRST.

OKAY. BECAUSE THEN WE'LL KNOW.

WHEN YOU GET TO MEAT AND POTATOES, THEN WE'LL KNOW WHAT WE'VE GOT.

LIKE I SAID, WE'VE ALREADY GOT SOME AMBULANCES ON ORDER.

WE'RE GOING TO RECHASSIS SOME. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DON'T KNOW RIGHT NOW. AND AT THAT POINT IN TIME, WE MAY HAVE A BACK SKIN, SO WE WON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT FULL TIME BECAUSE IT MAY NOT PAN OUT. THERE MAY BE A LOT OF PEOPLE VOLUNTEER FOR PART-TIME WORK. THEN AGAIN, THAT MAY BE SO SPORADIC. IT'S NOT GIVING US THE BENEFIT THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR LONG-TERM, OR EVEN SHORT-TERM, FOR THAT MATTER. WELL, THAT WOULD BE THE OTHER PART THAT WE HAVE TO GAUGE, RIGHT, AS WE LAUNCH THE PROGRAM AND WE GET FOLKS TO START WORKING.

BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS SOMETIMES WITH THE PART-TIME FOLKS IS THAT WHEN WE HAVE CERTAIN NEEDS, LIKE... IF WE'RE TRYING TO UP STAFF BECAUSE OF STORMS, FOR INSTANCE, WELL, THE REGULAR JURISDICTIONS, FULL-TIME JOBS ALSO NEED THEM, SO WE DON'T USUALLY HAVE A BIG POOL IN THOSE DAYS. WE STILL GET SOME, BUT NOT ALWAYS AS MUCH AS WE WOULD GET. AND IF THEY GET RECALLED, IT DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES. SO, YEAH, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SUFFICIENTLY BIG ENOUGH POOL OF PARTICIPANTS. THANK YOU. IF YOU DO GET A GOOD GROUP THAT ALL WANTS TO BE INVOLVED, THEN YOU MAY NOT HAVE ENOUGH HOURS TO GIVE, AND THEN THEY'LL LOSE INTEREST BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GETTING THEIR 24 OR THEIR 36 HOURS THAT THEY WERE EXPECTING TO DO. SO IT'S A TRICKY BALANCE. AGAIN, I'M STILL IN FAVOR OF EXPLORING THE IDEA. MR. FORD, ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? ALL RIGHT. SO WE HAVE A CONSENSUS. I WOULD SAY.

TO DO A SIX-MONTH PALLET. ONCE WE GET EVERYBODY ON BOARD AND READY TO GO, AND THEN AT THAT SIX-MONTH MARK, WE'LL EVALUATE AND EXTEND IF NEEDED.

ONCE WE GET ALL THE NUMBERS BACK. MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION, SIR. OKAY. SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE PILOT, COULD WE GO BACK AS A STAFF AND BRING BACK KIND OF A MORE FORMALIZED DISCUSSION OF WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE? SO THAT WHEN WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THAT PILOT, WE KIND OF KNOW WHAT WE'RE STEPPING INTO? THAT'S WHAT I WOULD ASK. MR. WEBB ASKED ABOUT HAVING THE MEAT AND POTATOES OF THE THING.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE SAYING, GO FORWARD WITH THE PILOT. WE WANT TO KNOW THE INFORMATION ABOUT THAT. NO, I'D LIKE TO SEE HOW YOU PLAN ON DOING IT. WHAT I'M GETTING IS GO FORWARD WITH DEVELOPING A PLAN AND GETTING SOME ACTUAL NUMBERS, CORRECT? YES. YEAH, I THINK WE WOULD TAKE SOME TIME, AND OBVIOUSLY IT'S GOING TO TAKE OTHER FOLKS' TIME.

THEY ALL WANT TO COMMIT THEIR TIME. SO WE WOULD JUST SCHEDULE A REPORT, I THINK, ON A REGULAR BOARD MEETING TIME AND GO OVER THIS. AND. I'M SORRY,

[01:10:01]

YEAH, BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO TAKE... REALISTICALLY, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BY THE TIME YOU GET ALL THE DEPARTMENTS INVOLVED, THIS IS PROBABLY A THREE- TO FOUR-MONTH PROCESS BEFORE IT WOULD BE OFF THE GROUND. YES, I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. WE'VE GOT TO DO THE SALARY STUDY. SO IT'S GOING TO TAKE HR RESOURCES TO DO ALL THAT. IT'S GOING TO TAKE FINANCE QUITE A BIT OF WORK TO FIGURE OUT ALL THE NUMBERS AFTER THAT. IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF...

PLANNING ON OUR PART AS FAR AS PROTOCOLS AND RULES, AND HOW WE ACTUALLY WORK OUT THE LOGISTICS AND IMPLEMENT THE PLAN. SO THERE'S A LOT OF PARTS AND PIECES. SO THREE MONTHS, I THINK, IS SOMETHING WE COULD DEFINITELY FIT WITHIN THAT TIME FRAME. IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR INPUT FROM THAT ASPECT, SIR. THAT'S FINE. AND THAT WAS WHAT MY THING, THE CONSENSUS WAS TO STUDY AND GET EVERYTHING LINED UP, NOT JUST JUMP INTO IT.

SO, BUT YEAH, IF Y'ALL CAN GET SOMETHING BACK. WE'VE GOT ONE MEETING IN JUNE, ON THE 23RD.

WE CAN LOOK AT IT AND MOVE FORWARD. TARGET THAT ONE? I'LL SEND A NOTE, YES, SIR. ALL RIGHT, NOW THIS BRINGS ME TO MY NEXT ISSUE. FORWARD, MR. CHAIR. IF WE'RE GOING TO PROCEED WITH THIS, AND I UNDERSTAND IT'S A PILOT PROGRAM, IF IT TURNS INTO A FULL-TIME THING, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US LOOK AT FUNDING EITHER A LIEUTENANT OR A CAPTAIN OF EMS TO MANAGE THAT PART OF THE SYSTEM. WELL, THE ENTIRE SYSTEM, BUT IT WOULD BE EMS-RELATED AS FAR AS IT WOULD TAKE. YOU CAN JUMP ON ME IF YOU WANT TO, CHIEF.

NOPE. BUT IT WOULD ASSIST, IT WOULD TAKE THE EMS DRUGS OUT OF THE LOGISTICS GUY, SO IT WOULD FREE HIM UP TO DO APPARATUS AND OTHER NEEDED THINGS. THAT ARE PROBABLY A LOT OF STRAIN. SO THIS NEW POSITION WOULD BE ABLE TO MANAGE THAT, MANAGE YOUR EMS-ONLY PEOPLE, AND DO QA, QI STUFF, MAKING SURE WE'RE UP TO DATE ON REPORTS, AND ALSO ASSIST WITH MAKING SURE WE'RE GETTING ALL THE STUFF BILLED TO THE BILLING COMPANY CORRECTLY.

BUT THAT'S JUST A THOUGHT. WE DON'T HAVE TO DECIDE ON IT TONIGHT. I JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT THERE. I WOULD ADD, I DON'T DISAGREE, THAT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO HAVE THAT ADDITIONAL PERSON.

AND AGAIN, IT HELPS US SET UP THE FRAMEWORK FOR THE FUTURE, WHICH IS KIND OF A THEME THAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO STICK WITH.

IN ADDITION, I NOW WOULD PREFER TO BE A CAPTAIN. IT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE A MEDIC. AND IT WOULD GIVE US AN ADDITIONAL MEDIC ABOVE AND BEYOND THE 12-HOUR SHIFT PERSON. SO IF YOU DO HAVE A BIG INCIDENT AND THIS MEDIC IS AVAILABLE, THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, OF HOURS, THEY CAN RETURN AND HELP, KIND OF LIKE I DO. OR SOME OF THE BATTALIONS COME BACK WHEN THINGS HAPPEN TO HAVE THAT ADDITIONAL MEDIC AVAILABLE FOR FIRST RESPONSE. NOW, CHIEF, ARE YOU, AND I ANSWER, HONESTLY, IS THIS SOMETHING WE CAN DO? THE PILOT PROGRAM, SEE HOW THAT WORKS, AND THEN MAYBE ADD THIS POSITION, POSSIBLY? DO YOU THINK YOU CAN HANDLE THAT? YEAH, I WOULD LIKE TO CONSULT WITH STAFF AS TO WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO PRECEPT THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

THAT'S MY BIGGEST CONCERN. I MEAN, RIGHT NOW WE'RE IN A LITTLE BIT OF STRUGGLE.

WE HAVE 9, 11 BRAND-NEW FOLKS STARTING APRIL 1ST AND SHORTLY AFTER. ALL THE NEW RECRUITS ARE COMING OUT. PRECEPT. AND THAT IS GOING TO BE A BIG LIFT.

SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE NEED 20 PARAMEDICS PART-TIME, WE GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO WE PRECEPT THOSE PEOPLE. SO I CAN GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT AS WELL. YEAH.

YES, SIR.

TO HAVE THE POSITION, WE HAVE TO... THE CAPTAIN POSITION? YES. BUT WE COULD HAVE THEIR FLEX. YES. IN THE BUDGET. I BELIEVE IN MY ORIGINAL PRESENTATION, I HAD INCLUDED A PROPOSED ORGANIZATIONAL CHART. SO THAT

[01:15:04]

SO IF THAT'S. IF THAT WORKS, WE COULD MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THAT POSITION, MULTIPLE OPTIONS AND JOB DESCRIPTIONS. YOU KNOW, ALL THE OTHER CONSIDERATIONS.

SO WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO BRING THAT BACK ON THE JUNE 23RD MEETING IF THAT WORKS OR AGAIN PENDING BOARD. THANK YOU.

I BELIEVE WE DO HAVE AN EMS CAPTAIN POSITION DISCUSSION ALREADY. I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. THAT 147, JUST SO THE BOARD KNOWS, THAT IS BASED OFF A GRADE 10, CORRECT? I THINK IT IS. I'M PRETTY SURE.

WE PUSHED IT AT THE SAME TIME. IT'S BASED ON THE CAPTAIN PAY GRADE. IT IS WHATEVER F. RIGHT. BUT WE MAY HAVE A SALARY SAVINGS IF IT IS SOMEBODY THAT INTERVIEWS FOR THAT POSITION THAT GETS MOVED INTO A STARTING GRADE. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A STEP 10? YEAH. OKAY. YES. SO IT'S THE CAPTAIN GRADE, AND WE DO BASE THAT ON A STEP 10. YES. IS THAT INCLUDING BENEFITS AND ALL THAT? YES, SIR. 147. OKAY. SO REALLY, THAT SALARY WOULD BE LIKE, CLOSER UNDER 100 IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, PROBABLY? YES.

OKAY. YES, THIS IS WITH BENEFITS. ALL OF THESE ARE WITH BENEFITS.

MR. PUGH, IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE AS A BUDGET AMENDMENT, IS IT SOMETHING YOU WOULD HAVE IN HERE CURRENTLY? IS IT NOT PART OF THE BUDGET WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CURRENTLY? IT'S NOT A CONSENSUS ON THE BUDGET. THAT IS CORRECT CURRENTLY. BUT THAT'S WHY I ASKED IF WE COULD RUN THE PILOT PROGRAM, SEE HOW THE PILOT PROGRAM WENT BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE ONE-TIME MONEY, AND THEN LOOK AT FUNDING. THIS POSITION LATER ON. TO. RIGHT, SO YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THIS AS A LINE ITEM IN THIS CURRENT CONVERSATION, THEN, RIGHT? NOT UNTIL WE SEE HOW THE PILOT PROGRAM GOES.

RIGHT. IN ALL HONESTY, UNLESS I'M MISSING A BOAT, THIS WOULD BE NOTHING DIFFERENT IF WE HAD TO GO BACK AND REDO THE ORG CHART IN THE MIDDLE OF THE YEAR. RIGHT.

TO CREATE A POSITION. WHAT I WAS INTENDING TO DO IS THAT WILL HELP THE CHIEF FIGURE OUT HOW ALL THE PARTS AND PIECES GO TOGETHER. CORRECT. IF YOU GET TO THAT POINT, THEN THIS IS WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE AND WHAT YOU NEED TO BE PREPARED FOR. FOLLOW ME? YEAH. I GUESS THE POINT THAT I'M BRINGING, I LIKE THIS IDEA. I LIKE THE PILOT PROGRAM IDEA.

IS IT SOMETHING WE TALK ABOUT TONIGHT, SINCE IT WOULD BE AN AMENDMENT LATER, ALTHOUGH GIVING STAFF DIRECTION TO START WORKING ON IT? IS THERE ANY? WE'RE AT 718 ALREADY. I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, IS, IF IT'S NOT PART OF THIS PARTICULAR BUDGET, ARE WE, IS THIS PART OF THE TOPIC TONIGHT, I GUESS? NO, OTHER THAN WE CAN GIVE HIM A CONSENSUS. RIGHT, JUST A CONSENSUS. YEAH, JUST A CONSENSUS. OKAY, THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE.

BUT IT ALSO, BY US DISCUSSING THIS TONIGHT, IT ALSO ALLOWS OUR EMPLOYEES, OUR STAFF TO GO, HEY, THEY'RE KIND OF LOOKING OUT FOR US, OR IF THEY SEE SOMETHING, THEY DIDN'T GET FUNDED, OR IF WE PASS A COST ALONG OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

IT SHOWS OUR STAFF AND OUR EMPLOYEES THAT WE'RE WORKING TO ALLEVIATE STRESS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I GUESS THE QUESTION, BECAUSE IT WAS GOING TO LEAD INTO YOUR NEXT POINT, SO YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IF THAT WAS GOING TO BE A SIMILAR IDEA. YES.

OKAY. LET'S MOVE ALONG.

SORRY. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

THAT'S IT? YEP, THAT'S IT ON THAT. YES, SIR. ALL RIGHT, MS. DRURY. OKAY. YOU'RE GOING TO LEAVE ME STILL, CORRECT? YOU'RE GOOD. THANK YOU. WE ACTUALLY DID NOT REALLY GET CONSENSUS ON THE GRASS CUTTING. ITEM MR. PUGH SO, SO, CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW TO TO ADD 26,504 TO THE BUDGET FOR THIRD PARTY GRASS CUTTING SERVICES FOR RECREATION. I DON'T KNOW IF THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS WOULD LIKE TO WEIGH IN ON THAT. SO HERE'S MY QUESTION. I THINK WE HAD A CONSENSUS TO RAISE CERTAIN FEES. WE DID.

WOULD THAT COVER THAT COST? IF WE DID, DO THAT. IT COMES VERY CLOSE TO COVERING THAT. YES, IT WAS OVER $40,000 IN ADDITIONAL RECREATION REVENUE. SO WE COULD USE THAT REVENUE TO POSSIBLY PAY FOR SOMETHING GOING ALONG.

NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT QUALIFIES AS MAINTENANCE UNDER THE TOURISM FUND, EITHER. THE $42,000 INCREASE WAS ALSO INTENDED TO COVER COSTS FOR JERSEYS AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT WE'RE NOT CURRENTLY MEETING EVEN ON. FAIR ENOUGH.

WAS YOUR THOUGHT, MR. PUGH, MR. PHILLIP PUGH, THAT THE $26,000 WOULD OFFSET COSTS THAT WE HAVE IN MAINTAINING PARKS, OTHERWISE? OR IS THIS JUST AN ADDITIONAL $26,000 EXPENSE? NO, NO, THIS WAS TO OFFSET COSTS. WHERE DO YOU HAVE A LINE ITEM TO OFFSET

[01:20:01]

BUT YOU HAVE NOT SCORED TO GIVE THEM THE PART-TIME? CORRECT. YOU CAN'T CUT IT IF YOU DON'T ADD IT. RIGHT.

CORRECT. AND I'M SORRY, I HOPE IT'S OKAY IF I COMMENT HERE, BUT WHAT THAT WOULD DO IS ALLOW, WE CURRENTLY HAVE THE RECREATION YOUTH SPORTS DIRECTOR, THEY GO OUT THERE AND MOW THE LAWN, SO THAT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO SPEND MORE TIME ON THE YOUTH AND THE RECREATION PROGRAMS. SO I'M JUST... OKAY. SO THE LAWN ITEM HERE IS LINE 232, WHICH WAS 21,000. ALL RIGHT, SO IT WOULD BE $5,000 MORE FOR THE PART-TIME, BUT ALSO FREEING UP THE OTHER INDIVIDUAL TO NOT CUT GRASS, BASICALLY.

AND THE MAINTENANCE ON THE MACHINES. WHICH IS NOT A LINE ITEM WE COULD VOTE ON.

CORRECT. YOU'D SEE A REDUCED COST. THE LAWNMOWER SHOULD LAST LONGER. YES. OKAY, I UNDERSTAND THAT. I WOULD SUPPORT THAT IF YOU WANTED TO MARK ME FOR A YES OR NO. I'M THE SAME WAY. HOUSE SUPPORT. I'LL GIVE IT TO MS. CURRY. NOW, IS THAT SOMETHING POSSIBLY TOURISM FUNDS COULD COVER? I GUESS NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE PARKS, NOT FIELDS.

THAT WOULD BE, YEAH, IT WOULDN'T. THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS USED FOR SPORTS TOURISM. I GOT YOU.

IT WOULDN'T. MR. WEBB, DO WE NEED TO REMOVE YOUR CONSENSUS TO ADD THE PART-TIME FUNDING FOR THAT POSITION? FOR WHICH ONE? SO THERE'S A REC. PART-TIME. OH, YEAH, YOU CAN REMOVE THAT IF WE'RE DOING THAT. OKAY. THAT'S THE ONLY WAY I'M GOING TO PUT THAT IN THERE. AND I'M IN AGREEMENT, MS. DRURY, ON THE FEE, ON THE RECREATION FEE.

ON THE RECREATION FEE? YES.

ALL RIGHT, AND THE NEXT ITEM THAT MR. PHILIP YOU MENTIONED WAS TO INCREASE VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER INCENTIVES TO EXCEED $599 PER YEAR. ALL RIGHT, SO MR. CHAIR, BOARD, I FORMULATED THIS OFF OF 75 VOLUNTEERS CURRENTLY.

WE CAN DO IT AS A PILOT PROGRAM AS WELL. WE CAN DO IT AS A ONE-TIME EXPENDITURE TO SEE HOW IT WORKS. YOU KNOW, I WOULD THINK WE PASS, IF Y'ALL ARE OKAY WITH IT, WE PASS IT OFF TO THE CHIEFS ASSOCIATION, THE CHIEFS COMMITTEE, AND KIND OF LET THEM COME BACK AND MAYBE PRESENT SOME CRITERIA ON IT, WHETHER IT'S A MONETARY THING, WHETHER IT'S WE CREATE A LINE ITEM TO GO, OKAY, HEY, YOU RUN THIS MANY CALLS, YOU CAN GET A FIRE HELMET. OR YOU CAN BUY A RADIO STRAP, OR IF WE DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IF IT'S A GAS CARD, OR IF IT'S JUST A CHECK, YOU KNOW, GAS IS UP. I KNOW WE ALREADY DO DO SOME VOLUNTEER RETENTION THINGS, WHICH IS LOSAP, WHICH IS A RETIREMENT PROGRAM.

BUT YOU'VE GOT TO BE VESTED IN ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF BEFORE YOU CAN DRAW ON THAT, AND YOU CAN'T DRAW UNTIL YOU'RE 60-SOMETHING. AND THEN WE ALSO DO CURRENTLY A TAX BREAK ON ONE VEHICLE. THAT THEY RESPOND IN. WE ALL KNOW CNN NEWS VOLUNTEERING IS DOWN. I'M NOT SURE IF THIS WOULD HAVE AN EFFECT. I KNOW WAVERLY, I BELIEVE, IS DOING AN INCENTIVE PROGRAM LIKE THIS, BUT IT'S SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.

TO SEE IF WE CAN SALVAGE SOME OF OUR VOLUNTEERS AND TRY TO GET THAT NUMBER HEADING BACK IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, BECAUSE, AS YOU ALL KNOW, WE ALL GO TO THE GROCERY STORE. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF VOLUNTEERS THAT USED TO GIVE THEIR TIME ARE NOW WORKING A SECOND JOB, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW, IT MAY MAKE SOMEBODY GO, OH, I'M GOING TO GO RUN THIS FIRE CALL, I'M GOING TO GET $10 OR $20.

BUT THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE CRITERIA DEVELOPED FROM THE CHIEF'S COMMITTEE AND BROUGHT BACK BEFORE THIS EVER GOT THOUGHT OF PERSONALLY. IT WAS JUST A TALKING POINT, BUT SOMETHING TO

[01:25:02]

IN THE COUNTY. MR. COX. YES, SIR. SO, PHILLIP, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING STRUCTURED, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW ALL THE DEPARTMENTS HAVE DIFFERENT BYLAWS. THEY'RE NOT ALL THE SAME IN WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE.

THAT'S WHY I WANT TO SEND IT TO THE CHIEF'S COMMITTEE, AND THEY WOULD MAKE A REQUIREMENT TO SAY, OKAY, YOU'VE GOT TO RUN 20 CALLS A MONTH, OR YOU'VE GOT TO HIT, YOU KNOW, 100 CALLS A YEAR. IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THEY WOULD HAVE TO BRING BACK AND ALMOST DEVELOP.

AND, YOU KNOW, PRESENT IT TO US TO LOOK AT, IN MY OPINION. I'D BE OPEN TO THAT AS LONG AS IT'S FAIR AND CONSISTENT TO ALL OF THEM.

YES, SIR. WHERE'S THE $60,000 NUMBER COMING FROM? I HAD BUDGETED THAT IN MY COST SAVINGS, I BELIEVE. I WASN'T OVER, CORRECT, BETSY? NO, SIR, I DON'T BELIEVE IT. YEAH, BUT LIKE I SAID, WITH THE CONSENSUS, YOU KNOW, IT ALL KIND OF FLUCTUATES NOW. OKAY. SO, I MEAN, THAT COULD BE A...

ONE-TIME EXPENDITURE AS WELL FOR, YOU KNOW, A VOLUNTEER RECRUITMENT RETENTION LINE ITEM OR SOMETHING. BUT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE'VE GOT TO LINE OUT TONIGHT. I MEAN, WE CAN SEND IT TO OUR CHIEF, BACK TO THE CHIEF'S COMMITTEE AND SEE WHAT THE KIND OF FEEDBACK WE GET, IF IT'S SOMETHING THEY EVEN WANT TO LOOK INTO. I WOULD SUPPORT LOOKING INTO THAT. I'D DO THE SAME, LOOKING INTO IT. SAME. THANK YOU. AND THEN MOVING ON INTO SOME OTHER LINE ITEMS, JUST TO MENTION THAT MR. FORD-PUGH AND MR. HAMILL HAD MADE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS FOR OTHER POSSIBLE REDUCTIONS. I HAVE THE ORIGINAL AMOUNT THAT THEY INCLUDED IN COLUMN L, AND THEN I HAD TAKEN SOME LIBERTIES, SORRY.

ON THINGS THAT WE NEEDED TO TWEAK, OR THINGS THAT SIMPLY WEREN'T INCLUDED IN THE BUDGET ALREADY. THEY HAD BOTH RECOMMENDED TO ELIMINATE FUNDING FOR PRINCE GEORGE HOPEWELL HEALTHY FAMILIES IN THE AMOUNT OF $30,000. THAT IS WHAT WE FUND THEM TODAY. THEY DID NOT ASK FOR AN INCREASE FOR FY27. DO WE KNOW WHAT HOPEWELL'S PORTION OF, WELL, DO WE KNOW WHAT HOPEWELL'S CONTRIBUTION IS? I DO NOT, NO, SIR. OKAY. WE HAVE ANY, I'M SORRY, CHAIR. YES, SIR. WE HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY FAMILIES THIS COULD IMPACT? I CAN LOOK UP SOME INFORMATION BASED ON WHAT THEY PROVIDED TO US. I DON'T HAVE TO HAVE IT RIGHT NOW, MR. THEY DO SERVE PRINCE GEORGE FAMILIES. WE MADE THE OFFER TO.

I CAN LOOK AT IT REAL QUICK.

20 FAMILIES, 198 HOME VISITS.

SORRY, LOOKING AT AN EMAIL.

LET ME GET THE TIME FRAME ON THAT. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING.

TO YOUR POINT, MR. P, I'M A LITTLE CAUTIOUS ON THIS ONE. THAT WAS ON THE ANNUAL REPORT, 20 FAMILIES, 198 HOME VISITS. I THINK WHEN WE WERE... WHEN I LOOKED AT THIS, I THINK THERE WAS A QUESTION RAISED ON HOW MANY AND EXACTLY WHAT HAD BEEN REPORTED OUT AND THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE PROGRAM. I DON'T KNOW, MR. FORD-PUGH, IF YOU HAD MORE THOUGHT ON THAT. I'M REREADING THIS EMAIL FROM DEBBIE PERSHING FROM HOPEWELL.

THEY'RE THE FISCAL AGENT FOR THIS GROUP. I'M TRYING TO DECIPHER THE EMAIL. ON FEBRUARY 24TH, SHE SAYS, TOTAL FUNDS UTILIZED 6706, REMAINING BALANCE 3293. SO THAT'S WHAT I ASKED, WHAT WAS HOPEWELL'S CONTRIBUTION TO THEM. AND MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THEY HAD SOME HICCUPS WITH THE FUNDING LAST YEAR, WITH THE CHECK THAT WE SENT TO THEM. GETTING LOST AND THEN RESENT. KIND OF CURIOUS, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY COVERED THEIR COSTS WHILE THEY WAITED FOR THAT TO BE RESOLVED. BUT, YEAH, 20 FAMILIES, 198 HOME VISITS, PARENTING EDUCATION

[01:30:01]

THERE WERE SOME OTHER REQUESTS IN THE CHOICES THAT ARE NOT FUNDED TODAY, BUT WE CAN'T CUT WHAT WE HAVEN'T FUNDED.

CRATER AREA AGENCY ON AGING REQUESTED $22,000, BUT THEY'RE NOT FUNDED. AND COLONIAL HEIGHTS FOOD PANTRY REQUESTED $2,500, BUT WE HAVE NOT FUNDED THEM.

SO WE COULD... AT MOST, CUT WHAT WE'RE FUNDING TODAY, WHICH IS $37,500. AND THAT WOULD ELIMINATE FUNDING TO PRINCE GEORGE, HOPEWELL, HEALTHY FAMILIES, THE JAMES HOUSE, AND SENIOR NAVIGATOR.

CAN WE GO TO THE BOTTOM AND LOOK AT OUR RESOURCES? AND AGAIN, THAT IS WITH ALL OF THESE CUTS FOR THE TWO OF YOU. ALREADY TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. YEP. CAN YOU MOVE IT ALL THE WAY TO SEE WHAT I'VE GOT LEFT? OKAY. ALL RIGHT, SO I HAVE A QUESTION, MR. CHAIR. OKAY.

WITH WHAT IS... BUDGETED BY CONSENSUS RIGHT NOW, WHAT IS THE DEFICIT? THE DEFICIT IS $143,952. AND THAT'S FUNDING AT 82 CENTS? YES, SIR.

OKAY. AND YOU SAID TWO BOARD MEMBERS CUT IT, CORRECT? CORRECT. AND WHAT ARE THOSE TWO BOARD MEMBERS OVER RIGHT NOW? ONE IS OVER BY 34 AND THE OTHER IS 262. AND I'VE GOT A CHOICE THAT CAN MAKE MINE POSITIVE.

AND THAT'S A PENNY? I'VE CUT IT TWO. TWO PENNIES? I'VE CUT IT ONE AND I'VE STILL GOT $260,000 TO SPEND. YES, BUT THAT IS CUTTING ALL OF THESE ITEMS. NOT AT THE AMOUNT THAT YOU INITIALLY PUT IN. RIGHT, BUT THE AMOUNT THAT'S ACTUAL.

BUT WITH THE AMOUNT THAT I DID.

AND THERE ARE A COUPLE THAT WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE OPERATIONAL IMPACT. RIGHT. I'M SURE, MS. PUDLOW WOULD LIKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO. JUST TO, WHY DON'T I NAVIGATE THROUGH ALL OF THESE? YEAH, PLEASE. AND THAT WAY WE CAN MOVE AHEAD AND COME BACK.

REDUCE THE PART-TIME OR THIRD-PARTY ATTORNEY FEES.

IN THE SOCIAL SERVICES BUDGET, THAT IS NOT A CLEAN CUT, SO TO SPEAK. THAT COMES WITH A CUT TO REVENUE. SO THE NET IMPACT IS THESE TWO NUMBERS TOGETHER, 22.5. THE SAME IS TRUE FOR ANYTHING IN SOCIAL SERVICES. CUTTING EXPENSE CUTS REVENUE. SO, CUTTING CONVENTION AND EDUCATION BY 3,000 IS ABOUT 22.50 NET REDUCTION.

ELIMINATING THE FURNITURE AND FIXTURES. THE PHONE UPGRADES HAVE ALREADY BEEN COMPLETED.

THERE IS NO OPPORTUNITY TO POSTPONE THOSE. THOSE ARE ALREADY DONE. $37.50 IS WHAT WE NET BY ELIMINATING THE FURNITURE AND FIXTURES.

APPOMATTOX REGIONAL LIBRARY, THE $20,445 IS THE INCREASE TO THEM, FUNDING THEM

[01:35:01]

THEIR ADOPTED BUDGET TODAY IS 52-2. AND THEY REQUESTED 43.8.

THEIR ATTACHMENT G QUANTIFIED ALL OF THOSE. SO IF YOU CUT THAT BY 35,000, THAT WOULD LEAVE THEM WITH ESSENTIALLY NO OR VERY LITTLE. 43.8 MINUS 35.

THAT WAS MORE OF A QUESTION ON MY PART. OKAY.

UNDERSTANDING WHETHER OR NOT THE SEVEN POLICE POSITIONS WERE. IT WAS NOT. UNIFORMS IS INFLATIONARY. I BELIEVE THEY ARE GOING TO EXPERIENCE A SHORTFALL THIS YEAR THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SOME TYPE OF BUDGET TRANSFER TO COVER. I KNOW THEIR BOOTS HAVE GONE UP AND THEIR UNIFORMS THEMSELVES.

THEY GOT AN EMAIL VERY EARLY IN THIS FISCAL YEAR WITH INFLATIONARY INCREASES, AND THAT WAS NOT RELATED TO THE 7-0. MR. CHAIR. MR. YES, SIR. I THINK I KNOW, BUT I'M GOING TO TELL ME THIS SPLIT ON THIS SOCIAL SERVICES. IS IT STILL LIKE 8614? OR? WE HAVE CONSERVATIVELY BUDGETED 7525 THIS YEAR? BECAUSE OF THE REDUCTION AT THE STATE LEVEL TO 75% FROM THE STATE CONSERVATIVELY, WHICH WOULD BE A LOSS. YES, SIR. THERE WAS ALSO A SUGGESTION TO CUT IT PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, I GUESS, BASED ON PRIOR YEAR SPEND.

THAT IS PROJECT RELATED. THEN TO NOT DO THE $30,000 IN VMWARE. SO THAT WAS A QUESTION AS WELL. OKAY. THAT WAS ONLY TO CUT IF CLIFF FOUND MONEY IN OTHER PARTS OF HIS BUDGET, BECAUSE THAT WAS A TOPIC AT ONE POINT. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS FOUND OR NOT. GOOD EVENING.

ONE OF THE OPTIONS WE LOOKED AT IS, IF WE DIDN'T DO THAT RIGHT AWAY, WAS WE COULD JUST RETRACT.

FROM SOME OF WHAT WE SPEND ON THE HARDWARE REPLACEMENT CYCLE, STRETCH A FEW THINGS OUT THAT COULD GO A FEW MORE YEARS. SO WE THINK IT'S MANAGEABLE. IT MIGHT GET US A LITTLE BEHIND ON A FEW REPLACEMENTS, BUT NOTHING THAT WOULD PUT US IN JEOPARDY, I DON'T THINK.

BECAUSE THE ULTIMATE GOAL IS TO TRY TO EITHER GET A NEW PIECE OF HARDWARE WITH NEWER LICENSING ON IT THAT'S LESS, OR HOST IT SOMEWHERE DIFFERENTLY, RIGHT? YES, SIR.

OKAY. THANKS, SARAH. OKAY.

THEN A SUGGESTION TO REDUCE CONVENTION AND EDUCATION, ALSO PROBABLY BASED ON PRIOR YEAR SPEND. ANIMAL SERVICES, PROFESSIONAL SERVICES IS FOR VETERINARY SERVICES. WE ACTUALLY SPENT OVER $95,000 IN FY25, AND THEY HAVE REQUESTED $85,000 FOR FY27. SO I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE IS REALLY AN OPPORTUNITY. BASED ON OUR VOLUME. THE SAME IS TRUE FOR PARKS AND REC OFFICIALS.

WE SPENT $58,000 IN FY25 AND SPENT ALMOST $69,000 THE YEAR BEFORE. THEY ARE REQUESTING $58,000. SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S REALLY AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHAVE THAT BACK, EITHER.

SPECIAL ACTIVITIES. I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT WOULD BE DEVASTATING. HOWEVER, I WILL TELL YOU THAT TODAY, THE PRACTICE IS TO RECORD SOME OF THE REVENUES THAT COME IN AS EXPENDITURE CREDITS, WHICH ARE PROBABLY DECREASING OR DEFLATING THOSE EXPENDITURES. MEDICAL AND LAB AMBULANCE. I KNOW THEY COMBINED

[01:40:06]

THE FIVE-YEAR AVERAGE IS 57.

COULD POTENTIALLY CUT 20, BUT IT IS A RISK, NOT KNOWING WHAT TARIFFS COULD DO AND WHAT THE ACTUAL DEMAND, ONCE WE HAVE MORE DATA. HAZMAT EMS RESPONSE TEAM, YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT HAS BEEN BUDGETED, BUT I KNOW THERE HAS BEEN A PUSH FOR CHIEF CACERES TO ORDER WHATEVER HE IS GOING TO ORDER THIS YEAR. EMS MAINTENANCE SERVICE CONTRACTS.

THAT WAS A BIG ONE. IT WAS. I KNOW THAT THE STATE USED TO PAY FOR HALF OF ESO. THEY DO NOT ANYMORE. SO THE PRIOR YEAR SPEND MAY NOT BE ACCURATE COMPARING TO WHAT WE ARE DOING TODAY.

THERE WAS AN ATTACHMENT THAT WE PROVIDED AND HAS OPTIONED TO THAT QUANTIFIED EVERY PENNY OF THAT. THEY ARE ACTUALLY REQUESTING A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN WHAT IS IN THE CURRENT YEAR BUDGET. I KNOW WE STILL HAVE A COUPLE OF BIG BILLS THAT ARE COMING IN IN JUNE. ONE OF THOSE IS U.S. DIGITAL. THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE OVER $60,000. SO WE WILL SPEND WHAT IS BUDGETED.

OKAY. TRAINING, THE FY26 BUDGET IS $58,800. HE DID REQUEST $84,000, BUT THAT IS IN HERE AS A CHOICE. SO IT'S NOT FUNDED. IF WE WERE TO CUT THAT BY $50,000, IT WOULD TAKE THEIR BUDGET DOWN BELOW $9,000. I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S REALLY AN OPTION. I DIDN'T PICK THAT UP AS THE CHOICE. FUEL. YOU KNOW, THIS WAS ONE AREA THAT WE HAD RECOMMENDED TO REDUCE, BUT BASED ON THE ENVIRONMENT TODAY, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE COULD CUT.

40, PARTICULARLY WITH MAYBE THE MEDIC PILOT THAT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING, POSSIBLY 18. WE MAY HAVE TO ADD TO IT. YOU MAY.

YOU MAY NOT WANT TO CUT FUEL, JUST SAYING. I THINK PART OF THIS CONVERSATION WAS BEFORE.

DIESEL WAS $4.99. $4.99. YEP.

THEN THE RAC SPACE, THAT WAS FOR VOLUNTEER EMAIL ACCOUNTS. I THINK THEY ARE ACTIVE VOLUNTEER ACCOUNTS. I WASN'T SURE WHAT THAT NOTE MEANT. SO IT WAS JUST A HOUSEKEEPING THING TO LOOK AT RACKSPACE AND SEE WHAT THE LAST LOGON OR THE LAST ACCESS DATE WAS FOR THOSE ACCOUNTS.

AND IF THEY HADN'T USED THEM IN 2026, POTENTIALLY LOOK AT THEM FOR A CUT. I KNOW CLIFF IS VERY DILIGENT ABOUT OUR MICROSOFT OFFICE LICENSES BECAUSE OF THE COST. I WOULD IMAGINE THAT YOU WORK WITH FIRE AND EMS ON THE VOLUNTEER ACCOUNTS.

OKAY. OKAY. SO WE'RE NOT SURE IF THERE'S POSSIBILITY TO SAVE THERE. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE COULD ELIMINATE THE ENTIRE $8,000. THAT COVERS ALL OF THE VOLUNTEER ACCOUNTS, THE EMAIL ACCOUNTS. MR. YES, SIR. MR. YOUNG, YOU CAN STAY WHERE YOU'RE AT. WHEN YOU SAID YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS OR YOU CAN'T ACCESS IT. BUT TO MR. FORD PUGH'S QUESTION, YOU CAN LOOK AND SEE WHEN CERTAIN, WHEN SOMEBODY LOGGED ON. OR LAST TIME I USED THE ACCOUNT, OR HOW MANY TIMES. AND FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, IT'S MANAGED BY THE FIRE E&MS ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF, SO CERTAINLY WE COULD GO TAKE A LOOK AND LET THE BOARD KNOW WHAT'S FOUND. I THINK THE IDEA WOULD BE IS YOU LOOK AT A CERTAIN TIME FRAME, YOU DEACTIVATE THOSE, AND THE HOPE WOULD BE IS WE WOULD DO IT ON A ROLLING BASIS OF 90 DAYS OR 180 DAYS, WHATEVER WE THINK IS REASONABLE FOR THE BUSINESS CASE. IT'S NOT A HUGE COST IN THE BUDGET, BUT I MIGHT ALMOST PAIR THAT WITH THE, YOU KNOW. VOLUNTEER INCENTIVE PROGRAM. IF YOU RUN A

[01:45:01]

UNLESS THERE'S A DATA RETENTION ISSUE THAT WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT AND KEEP IT AROUND FOR DATA RETENTION.

BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT, HOW THAT WOULD IMPACT COMMUNICATION, SCHEDULING.

CHIEF KACERES COULD PROBABLY SPEAK BETTER TO THAT THAN I COULD.

BUT I DO KNOW THAT THEY USE THAT FOR ROUTINE COMMUNICATIONS TO THE VOLUNTEERS. OKAY. I KNOW THEY TRACK MINE, BUT I DON'T USE IT EVERY SO OFTEN. IT'LL BE ACCURATE. THANKS, CHIEF. I AM BACK. OKAY. THIS IS A TRICKY ONE. YES, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO EVALUATE WHO IS USING IT, WHO IS NOT. TO BE HONEST, HERE, SOME VOLUNTEERS LIKE IT. SOME VOLUNTEERS DO NOT. THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE TO FORWARD THAT EMAIL TO THEIR OTHER EMAIL. THEIR OTHER OPTION WOULD BE THAT WE GET RID OF IT. AND THEN WE HAVE TO MANAGE INDIVIDUAL PERSONAL EMAILS AND THEN TO SEND FIRE DEPARTMENT NOTIFICATIONS. SOME DON'T WANT THAT, SOME WANT THAT. SO IT'S KIND OF A DIFFICULT PIECE. WE DID GET AN INCREASE NOTIFICATION THIS YEAR, SIGNIFICANT. SO WE HAVE TO MANAGE THAT. THE OTHER PIECE, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT NUMBER OF CALLS, CURRENTLY, I BELIEVE EVERYONE THAT IS A MEMBER OF ANY OF THE VOLUNTEER STATIONS GETS THIS EMAIL. I TYPICALLY FOCUS MORE ON EFFECTIVE MEMBERS, WHAT WE CALL IDLH MEMBERS.

THAT NUMBER IS ABOUT 80, BUT THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH MORE THAT ARE ASSOCIATION MEMBERS.

SUPPORT MEMBERS. THERE'S DIFFERENT SORT OF CATEGORIES, EACH STATION CALLS THEM A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. YOU KNOW, HELP AROUND, DO FUNDRAISING, DO OTHER THINGS AS PART OF THEIR ASSOCIATIONS, AND SO MAYBE THAT'S A PLACE TO START. I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.

PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN BRING UP AGAIN, IN ADDITION TO THE PROPOSED OR SUGGESTED INCENTIVE PLAN. IF THEY WANT TO KEEP EMAIL OR NOT, EVEN IF IT'S NOT A FULL CUT, YOU KNOW. DOES RACKSPACE HAVE ANOTHER OPTION? I HAVEN'T USED RACKSPACE FOR FOR A COUPLE YEARS. DOES RACKSPACE HAVE AN OPTION TO RETAIN LESS DATA? SO INSTEAD OF KEEPING YOU KNOW EVERYTHING THAT THEY'VE EVER RECEIVED, CAN WE GO DOWN TO, LIKE, THREE YEARS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? YEAH, THAT'S.

THAT'S DEFINITELY, UH, PROBABLY SOMETHING WE COULD, WE COULD DO. MR WAS 8760 THE FULL REQUEST FOR THAT. OR WAS THAT JUST WHAT I ASKED TO REDUCE ABOUT BECAUSE OF LAST YEAR'S SPEND? SORRY, AND I'M NOT PICKING ON YOU, CLIFF. I'M JUST LOOKING IN THE SPACE THAT I'M FAMILIAR WITH.

THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE PROJECTED INCREASE IN COST. ALL RIGHT, SO LET'S JUST LOOK AT WHAT THE INCREASE IS ABOUT.

IS IT THE AMOUNT OF GIG OF STORAGE THAT WE'RE KEEPING? IS IT THE NUMBER OF ACCOUNTS DIVIDED BY THE LICENSES? YOU KNOW, AND JUST BRING THAT BACK. THE USER FEE HAS ALREADY INCREASED.

ALL RIGHT. YEP. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. WELL, TRY TO GET AN ANSWER ON THAT. I'LL HAVE TO WORK WITH IT TO SET UP. I'LL STAY OUT OF IT. THE NEXT COUPLE OF SUGGESTIONS WERE ALSO RELATED TO FIRE AND EMS. FOOD SUPPLIES CUT BY $8,000. OFFICE SUPPLIES BY $1,000. THERE WAS A PROCESS BY WHICH VOLUNTEER STATIONS COULD SUBMIT REIMBURSEMENT REQUESTS.

FOR SOME OF THEIR MONDAY NIGHT DINNERS, SO TO SPEAK, UP TO A CERTAIN AMOUNT ANNUALLY.

SO AGAIN, WITH THAT CUT WOULD HAVE TO COME THE MANAGEMENT OF THE EXPECTATION. IS THAT STORM PREPARATION AS WELL? LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, IF WE DO STORM PREPARATION FOR AN INCOME, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER DAY, WE HAD HIGH WINDS, OR A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, WE HAD, YOU KNOW, DEPENDS ON WHETHER IT'S A DECLARED EMERGENCY, RIGHT? I THINK THE FOOD BUDGET IS THE FOOD BUDGET UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES. IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER AN ERP IS CALLED AS TO WHETHER YOU CAN GO OVER THAT ALLOWANCE. WERE THOSE TWO ALSO CUTS BACK TO WHAT LAST YEAR'S SPEND WAS, $8,000 AND $1,000? I'M NOT SURE, POTENTIALLY. OH, I'M SORRY. I GOT THOSE FROM THE LINE ITEMS, NOT FROM THE SPREADSHEET.

CORRECT. OKAY. SO WERE THOSE INCREASES, MR. PUGH, OR WERE THOSE FULL? NO, I DON'T THINK I'D CUT FULL. I THINK A LOT OF THESE. SEE WHERE IT SAYS

[01:50:02]

NEVER TOOK THE CHANCE TO READ THROUGH YOUR AMENDMENTS AND TRANSFERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT IT WAS JUST TRYING TO IDENTIFY ACCOUNTS WHERE MONEY HAD BEEN STORED AND NOT SPENT.

RIGHT. WE TYPICALLY DO VERY FEW BUDGET TRANSFERS. OUR DEPARTMENT HAS ASKED FOR VERY FEW TRANSFERS BETWEEN LINE ITEMS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

I THINK WHAT YOU WOULD FIND WHEN YOU LOOK THROUGH THAT EXPORTED DATA IS THAT THEY ARE INCREASED. THEIR BUDGET AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE FROM EITHER A GRANT, INSURANCE APPROPRIATION, OR OTHER FUNDING SOURCE. THERE ARE NOT VERY MANY LINE ITEM TRANSFERS. CDCC, PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, AGAIN, THAT IS KIND OF AN UNKNOWN. IF YOU WILL, MR. HARRISON DOES NOT KNOW FROM YEAR TO YEAR WHAT LARGE PROJECTS HE MAY NEED THIRD PARTY ASSISTANCE WITH. ECC, CONVENTION ON EDUCATION, I BELIEVE, MR. BOSSERMAN INDICATED THAT THAT IS OKAY. THEY FOUND A CHEAPER ALTERNATIVE FOR SOME OF THE TRAINING, SO THAT IS POSSIBLE. ANIMAL SERVICES, $4,600 CUT. THAT'S THEIR ENTIRE REQUEST. TODAY, THEY HAVE $3,600 BUDGETED.

THEY REQUESTED A THOUSAND DOLLAR INCREASE IN THEIR ATTACHMENT. E AND HE, MR. LEININGER, OR LEINBERGER, QUANTIFIED THE TRAINING THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO TO HAVE. SO I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN ELIMINATE THEIR TRAINING BUDGET. WE COULD TAKE IT BACK DOWN TO LEVEL FUNDING POTENTIALLY, BUT I KNOW THERE ARE TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE NEEDED THERE. I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN WHAT WAS INTENDED, NOT TO TAKE IT TO ZERO. RIGHT, RIGHT. THE ASSESSOR'S OFFICE, YOU KNOW, $11,000, THE SAME AS IN FY27. I THINK, MS. PUDLOW INDICATED THAT THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE DONE. YEP. OFFICE SUPPLIES, I WASN'T SURE WHICH DEPARTMENT THAT RELATED TO, OR IF IT WAS JUST AT LARGE. IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN AT LARGE, JUST TO LOOK AND EXCUSE ME, MR. CHAIR, FOR JUST SPEAKING. BUT THAT WAS PROBABLY JUST LOOKING AT THE OFFICE SUPPLIES, ACCOUNT FOR EACH DEPARTMENT AND SEE WHAT PRIOR YEAR LOOKS LIKE.

AND ARE THE REQUESTS ACTUAL, YOU KNOW, WITH INFLATION, OR CAN WE GO BACK TO LEVEL FUNDING? AND WE ACTUALLY DID DO THAT HERE. WE CUT IT BY $2,500 DOWN HERE.

AND WITHIN VARIOUS DEPARTMENTS.

THAT'S WHEN YOU AND CHARLIE WENT THROUGH AND FOUND THE 24? YEP. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO WE CERTAINLY PROBABLY WOULDN'T WANT TO CUT THAT AGAIN, BUT, YEAH. I THINK THOSE CUTS WOULD BE SUFFICIENT. YEAH, AND I THINK WE WERE, YOU KNOW, ATTACKING THESE THINGS SIMULTANEOUSLY, SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. SURE. RCJA, ASSISTANCE AND LODGING.THE BOARD MEMBERS MAY RECALL, AGAIN, THIS ISN'T A CLEAN CUT, SO TO SPEAK. IF WE CUT $2,000 FROM THAT RCJA BUDGET, IT IS ONLY SUPPORTED, IN PART BY A TRANSFER FROM PRINCE GEORGE. IT IS ALSO SUPPORTED BY HOPEWELL AND SURREY. SO A $2,000 CUT TO THAT BUDGET RESULTS IN A $960 REDUCTION IN OUR GENERAL FUND TRANSFER, 48%. THE OTHER PERCENTAGES...

COME FROM HOPEWELL AND SURREY.

I THINK, AGAIN, THAT ONE WAS BASED ON ACTUALS NEVER HAVING MET WITH THEM. AND MRS. WOFF WAS NOT, YOU KNOW, SHE WAS NOT OPPOSED TO THAT IF IT WAS NECESSARY.

FARMER'S MARKET, $1,200 FOR THE CONVENIENCE FEE.

CURRENTLY, FARMER'S MARKET IS... THE ONLY COLLECTION SITE WHERE WE DO NOT PASS THAT CONVENIENCE FEE TO THE CUSTOMER. WE DO IN OTHER PAYMENT LOCATIONS, INCLUDING THE TREASURER'S OFFICE. SO IF THAT WERE TO BE ELIMINATED, IT WOULD REQUIRE AN ORDINANCE CHANGE.

RIGHT. SO THIS ONE WAS JUST A CLARIFICATION ONE. THE FARMER'S MARKET CREDIT CARD FEES,

[01:55:01]

WE'RE NOT GETTING ANY MONEY FROM SALES OF GOODS AT THE FARMER'S MARKET? OUR REVENUE SOURCE, THIS IS ACTUALLY AN EXPENSE.

SO WE DO COLLECT RENT FROM VENDORS AT THE FARMER'S MARKET.

BUT ONE OF OUR EXPENDITURES IS TO ABSORB THAT CREDIT CARD CONVENIENCE FEE WHEN A PERSON AT THE MARKET PAYS BY DEBIT OR CREDIT. OKAY, SO IF A CONSUMER... CORRECT. PAYS A VENDOR, THE COUNTY IS EATING THAT CREDIT CARD FEE.

CORRECT. OKAY. I'M GOING TO GO READ THAT ORDINANCE AGAIN. AND ALL OF OUR VENDORS ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF REIMBURSEMENT REQUESTS FOR THOSE FEES, OR HOW IS THAT WORKING? YEAH.

YEAH. SO WE BUY. WE BUY, OR THE CONSUMER BUYS TOKENS FROM US, AND IF THEY USE A DEBIT OR A CREDIT CARD TO PURCHASE THOSE TOKENS, WE ABSORB THE FEE. I NEED A REBATE ON MY SOURDOUGH THAT I'VE BEEN BUYING. I WAS UNAWARE OF THE TOKENS. THANKS. BECAUSE CERTAIN VENDORS DO ALSO HAVE THE SQUARE WHERE THEY'RE TAKING THE FEE, THE CREDIT CARD.

VEHICLE AND EQUIPMENT, FUEL. I WASN'T SURE ABOUT THAT DOUBLE COUNTING.

WAS IT A DECREASE? IT WAS PROBABLY PART OF THAT WAS AT $19,050 IN A DECREASE THAT WE HAD FOUND. YOU PROBABLY CAN IGNORE THIS. OKAY, BOARDING OF ANIMALS, AND MAYBE THIS WAS A REQUESTED FEE INCREASE. SO THIS WAS A REVENUE ITEM. THIS IS PROBABLY A QUESTION FOR MR. LEINBERGER, ABOUT WHAT TYPE OF SCENARIOS, OR DOES A BOARDING OF ANIMALS COME INTO ACCOUNT? AND SOMEONE AGREED TO ADOPT AN ANIMAL AND THEN THEY DON'T COME, AND THEN WE BOARD THE ANIMAL UNTIL THAT PERSON IS AVAILABLE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I'LL HAVE TO GET WITH HIM ABOUT. WELL, WE CAN CERTAINLY RELAY THAT QUESTION AND GET MORE INFORMATION. THANKS. YEP.

OKAY, AND THEN POLICE, SECURITY, I KNOW THAT WAS A QUESTION. IS THERE POTENTIAL TO BILL AT A HIGHER RATE THAN 40? WE ARE SEEKING A LEGAL OPINION ON THAT. KRISTEN, I THINK YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU... I'VE GOT A QUESTION. MR. WEBB'S GOT A QUESTION. THIS IS FOR POLICE OR POLICE AND SHERIFFS? I BELIEVE THAT THE SHERIFF DOES PROVIDE SOME SECURITY. I DON'T KNOW THAT HE'S BILLING ALL OF THE SECURITY THAT HE IS PROVIDING.

WE ARE RESEARCHING THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE NOW. SO, YES, POTENTIALLY WE DEVELOP A CONTRACT WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

MS. EPPS? IT DEVELOPS THAT CONTRACT. WE HAVE THAT CONTRACT WITH THE THIRD PARTY, AND THE PAYROLL OFFICE DOES BILL THAT PRIVATE SECURITY AT $40, WHICH IS WHAT THE POLICE OFFICER IS PAID. I PERSONALLY THINK IT OUGHT TO BE THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD. IF NOT, WHO'S PICKING THE COST UP? DOES THAT COVER THE VEHICLE ALSO? IT'S JUST THE SALARY, SIR. SO NOT EVEN BENEFITS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, JUST THE HOURLY RATE? I BELIEVE IT'S JUST THE HOURLY. SO WE'VE GOT COSTS THAT WE'RE NOT CATCHING THROUGH THAT RATE. YEAH. I WASN'T SURE. THAT'S WHY I ASKED. THERE WAS RECENTLY WE WERE DOING A REVIEW, AGAIN, BECAUSE OF BUDGET, JUST LOOKING AT REVENUE SOURCES. AND WE HAD A CHANGEOVER IN PERSONNEL AND PAYROLL, AND THEN WE CAUGHT THAT THE BILLING AND COLLECTIONS ON THOSE TYPES OF CONTRACTS WAS LAGGING. SO AGAIN, WORKING TO WORK WITH THOSE DEPARTMENTS AND MAKE SURE THE GAP IS FILLED. BUT YEAH, THE INTENT OF THE QUESTION WAS, CAN WE BUILD MORE, RIGHT? AND LEGALLY, I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE A REVENUE STREAM, BUT LEGALLY, CAN WE BUILD MORE? AND THEN,

[02:00:01]

OTHERS DO. THERE'S COSTS WE'RE NOT CALCULATING INTO THAT FEE. SO, AGAIN, IF THAT'S ANOTHER ITEM THE BOARD WOULD LIKE US TO BRING BACK INFORMATION ON, I BELIEVE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS KIND OF BEEN QUEUED UP TO KIND OF LOOK AT THAT. AND TO ME, IT SHOULD BE CONSISTENT ACROSS THE BOARD. SHERIFF OR POLICE, EITHER ONE, THEY'RE PROVIDING THE SAME FUNCTION.

SOMEBODY'S GOT TO PICK IT UP.

SO THIS SOUNDS LIKE A POTENTIAL POLICY DISCUSSION FOR A FUTURE BOARD MEETING. IS THAT THE CONSENSUS HERE? YES, MA'AM. IS THIS FOR, LIKE, WORKING SPECIAL EVENTS? NO, SO THE SPECIFIC THING THAT I'M THINKING ABOUT IS, LIKE, STANDARD MOTOR OR SOME PEOPLE IN THE BUSINESS PARK ASK FOR AFTER-HOURS SECURITY.

OKAY. BUT THEY REIMBURSE US.

ALL RIGHT. I'M ON BOARD FOR THAT. I'M ON BOARD. I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF SOMEBODY WAS HAVING AN EVENT OR SOMETHING. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE. OKAY.

I'M ON BOARD FOR THAT. DO I HAVE A CONSENSUS FORM TO BRING IT BACK TO US IN A REGULAR MEETING? TO CLARIFY WHAT YOU JUST SAID, SO POLICE DO NOT BILL FOR PRIVATE EVENTS, THEN? THEY BILL, SIR, YES. WE WERE BEHIND ON COLLECTING FOR THOSE EVENTS AND MAKING SURE WE WERE GETTING PAID OR RECEIVING PAYMENT FOR THEM. THE FEES THAT WE'RE BILLING ARE LESS THAN OTHER LOCALITIES. I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A SCENARIO REAL QUICK. I RENT THE RUINING CLUB, AND I ASK FOR POLICE PRESENCE. I PAY A FEE. YOU PAY, YES, SIR.

OKAY, PERFECT. ALL RIGHT, THANKS. IT SHOULD BE THE SAME FOR BOTH. AND EVEN PRINCE GEORGE COUNTY PAID FOR POLICE TO STAFF THE DIXIE WORLD SERIES. YOU KNOW, IT WAS AN OFF-DUTY EXTRA THING.

REAL QUICK, CHIEF EARLY IS HERE. CHIEF, DOES THAT INCLUDE FOOTBALL GAMES AND SUCH? WAS THAT A SERVICE WE PROVIDE TO THE SCHOOLS? A FEW POINTS TO MAKE. EXTRA DUTY, SO THERE'S COUNTY-SPONSORED OVERTIME THAT'S PAID BY THE COUNTY.

FOOTBALL, GAMES AND ALL COMES OUT OF THE SCHOOL BUDGET, REIMBURSED BACK TO US. THE EXTRA DUTY IS BUSINESSES. WHEN A BUSINESS CONTRACTS US, AND IT IS THE SAME FOR SHERIFF AND POLICE, THEY FILL IN FOR US. WHEN WE CAN'T FILL A SPOT, AND IT'S THE SAME BILLING.

BUT YES, THE BILLING, ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTY, WE BILL FOR, AND IT IS A FLAT RATE. THERE ARE BUSINESSES THAT MANAGE THIS, AND OTHER LOCALITIES AROUND US USE IT, AND IT CAN ALSO BE COMPETITIVE.

BILLING WITH COUNTY OR CITY ASSOCIATED COSTS FACTORED IN.

SO THERE ARE OPTIONS THERE.

AND WE WERE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT OUR RATE NOW IF IT NEEDED ADJUSTING. SO THIS MAY BE GOOD TIMING. BUT TO MR. FORD PUGH'S QUESTION, IF HE HAS AN EVENT, SHRIMP, FISH, ROAST, WHATEVER, AND HE HAS FOR SECURITY, THEN HE PAYS THE COUNTY.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT, SO I THINK I'M ON THE SAME PAGE. YES. ANY PRIVATE BUSINESS THAT HIRES US, THEY'RE PAYING THE COUNTY.

OKAY. OR THE OFFICER THROUGH THE COUNTY. OKAY. MR. CHAIR, I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU. THIS COMPANY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT POSSIBLY GOING TO MANAGE THIS BILLING. COULD WE BILL WHEN AN OFFICER'S TIED UP ON AN ECO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THE HOSPITAL, FOR AN EXTENDED AMOUNT OF TIME, THEIR INSURANCE COMPANY? I'VE NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT, AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT. IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

IT'S A GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME. A LOT OF TIME. A LOT OF TIME. I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT COULD BE SOMETHING. TO HELP OFFSET SOME CALLS. I CAN ASK SOME QUESTIONS ON THAT, BUT I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR.

THANK YOU. SORRY, WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO ASK? CONSENSUS.

CONSENSUS FOR HIM TO LOOK AT THIS AND BRING IT BACK TO US AT A FUTURE MEETING. I'M GOOD WITH IT. I'M GOOD. I'M GOOD.

GOOD. DO YOU NEED A DATE CERTAIN OR JUST? IF YOU PREFER TO GIVE ME ONE, SIR. I DON'T HAVE A SUGGESTION, JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE WERE GIVING YOU WHAT YOU NEEDED. WE'LL TRY FOR 90 DAYS AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO WITH THAT. ALL RIGHT, NEXT ITEM. OKAY, THESE NEXT ITEMS, I WASN'T SURE WHAT THE AMOUNTS WERE RELATED TO. I THINK MY COLUMN H IS THE ROW NUMBER IN YOUR CHOICES OR IN THE MUST DO TAB, JUST SO THAT YOU COULD RIGHT SIZE OUR NUMBERS WITH YOUR NUMBERS.

BUT AGAIN, THESE WERE ACCOUNTS

[02:05:02]

OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, THERE HAS BEEN SOME STAFFING INCONSISTENCY. THERE HAVE BEEN SOME REQUESTS TO CHANGE WHERE THEY WERE PAYING CERTAIN THINGS FROM. I FEEL LIKE THERE PROBABLY HAVE BEEN SOME CODING INCONSISTENCIES ON WHERE ACTUAL EXPENDITURES WERE BEING CHARGED. SO WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE SOME WORK TO DO, PARTICULARLY IN THAT DEPARTMENT, TO CLEAN UP, TO BECOME MORE CONSISTENT, SO THAT WE DO HAVE BETTER TREND INFORMATION. BUT WE, WE REALLY DID NOT HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY, WITH THE CHANGE IN STAFFING, TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS. OKAY.

MR. CHAIR. YES, SIR.

WITH THAT, WHEN YOU MENTIONED PURCHASING, WE'VE GOT CSA OR STATE CONTRACTS AND ALL. IS THERE POLICIES TIGHT ACROSS THE BOARD FOR WHERE WE SHOULD BE PURCHASING STUFF VERSUS JUST GOING OUT HERE AND BUYING SOMETHING ON A P-CARD? IF WE'VE ALREADY GOT A CSA OR SOMETHING IN PLACE OR NOT? WHAT DO YOU MEAN CSA? CONSOLIDATED SERVICE AGREEMENT IS WHAT WE CALL IT.

THE POLICY THAT STATES, OKAY, IF YOU'RE GOING TO BUY AMMUNITION, YOU BUY IT FROM THIS PARTICULAR VENDOR.

YES, SIR. WE DO HAVE SOME CONTRACTS IN PLACE. WE DO REQUIRE MULTIPLE QUOTES AT CERTAIN DOLLAR THRESHOLDS AND THE COMPLETION OF A PURCHASE ORDER WHEN AN ITEM IS OVER $3,000. YES, SIR. SO THAT'S CONSISTENT ACROSS ALL DEPARTMENTS? IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE, YES, SIR. WE DO ENCOUNTER SOME SURPRISES ON OCCASION. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE KIND OF, GIVE ME A LITTLE BIT OF A CURVE. OKAY, I THINK YOU JUST ANSWERED MY QUESTION.

THAT THRESHOLD IS $5,000, CORRECT? THE REQUEST FOR MULTIPLE QUOTES, I BELIEVE, IS THREE. THREE THOUSAND? OKAY. ALL RIGHT, SO WE KNOW WE HAVE SOME WORK TO DO AT FIRE AND EMS. IF WE FIND ANY OPPORTUNITIES IN THE NEXT TWO MONTHS, WE WILL CERTAINLY BRING THEM TO YOU. AS STAFFING IS IN PLACE AND WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEET WITH THE FOLKS. AND DETERMINE WHAT HASN'T BEEN ORDERED FOR THE YEAR. WE ARE KIND OF IN NO MAN'S LAND RIGHT NOW, WITH THE LACK OF AN OFFICE MANAGER. WE KNOW THAT WE NEED TO MEET WITH CHIEF CACERES, AND WE'VE ALREADY MENTIONED THAT TO HIM. COULD WE ASK, AND I'M SORRY FOR INTERRUPTING YOU, COULD WE ASK THAT? WE HOLD THESE SPECIFIC ACCOUNTS AT LEVEL? AND THEN WE'LL HOLD A PLACE FOR A BUDGET AMENDMENT LATER FOR THE DIFFERENCE UNTIL WE FIGURE IT OUT? WE CAN GO BACK, CERTAINLY, AND LOOK AT WHERE THE CURRENT BUDGET IS AND WHAT WAS REQUESTED. YEAH. I THINK WE HAVE PLENTY OF WORK SESSIONS, SO I MEAN, OKAY, YOUR TWO MONTH RIGHT WILL HOLD.

RIGHT. WE ARE LOOKING, OF COURSE, TONIGHT, FOR CONSENSUS ON ON WHAT MS. PUDLOW WILL BE INTRODUCING FOR THE GENERAL FUND BUDGET AND ALL FUND BUDGET ACTUALLY NEXT WEEK. SO WHERE WE ARE FROM A CONSENSUS STANDPOINT NOW IS A $144,000 DEFICIT. SO WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SOME REDUCTIONS AND OR SOME REVISIONS. MS. DRURY, COULD YOU REMOVE MY VOTE FOR THE $100,000 IN THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT? YES. THAT SHOULD BRING $100,000 OFF. SO IT DIDN'T SAY IT SHOULD ADD $100,000, SORRY, BECAUSE YOU'RE TAKING $100,000 OUT, CORRECT? CORRECT.

EXCELLENT. SO I THINK AT THE BOTTOM, THAT SHOULD TAKE YOU FROM A NEGATIVE 140 DOWN TO NEGATIVE 40. AND SOME

[02:10:06]

BUT. BUT LET'S LOOK AT SOME OF THESE ITEMS THAT THE TWO OF YOU RECOMMENDED. I THINK WE COULD MAYBE ASK OTHER BOARD MEMBERS ABOUT POTENTIAL REDUCTIONS.

UM, WELL, CAN I ASK MY FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS? BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING? THERE'S THINGS FURTHER UP THIS THAT I WANT TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE CONVERSATION AMONGST THE FIVE OF US. RIGHT NOW, WITH CONSENSUS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOT GIVING ANY TAX RELIEF AFTER A 10.5% INCREASE LAST YEAR. I KNOW WE KEPT THE RATE THE SAME, BUT IT WAS AN EFFECTIVE TAX INCREASE.

WITH THAT, SO YOU'RE NOT GIVING ANY TAX RELIEF, YOU'RE ALSO GOING TO RAISE HEALTH CARE COSTS ON OUR EMPLOYEES. YOU'RE ALSO GOING TO NOT SAVE $522,000.

AND WE'RE GOING TO ADD A TON OF MONEY IN A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT PLACES. AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN TALKED ABOUT THE UTILITY RATE. I KNOW THAT'S THE NEXT ITEM THAT COMES AFTER THIS. AND SO WHILE I THINK EACH ONE OF US MAY HAVE PUT CHOICES WE THINK WORK FOR OUR INDIVIDUAL LINES, THE CONSENSUS BETWEEN THE FIVE OF US IS NOT THE STORY I THINK ANY OF THE FIVE OF US INTENDED TO TELL. BECAUSE IF YOU'RE RAISING RATES AND NOT LOWERING THE TAX, IT'S A TAX INCREASE, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT RAISING THE RATE.

ON A NON-ASSESSMENT YEAR. AND SO I JUST ASKED THAT WE MIGHT CONSIDER, TWO CENTS IS HARD ON MINE, AND MINE'S BEEN SHOWING NEGATIVE AT THE BOTTOM THIS WHOLE TIME.

AND THERE'S SOME EXTRA THINGS WE WOULD HAVE TO TALK ABOUT HERE AT THE BOTTOM, WHETHER OR NOT WE HAD CONSENSUS TO CUT THESE ADDITIONAL THINGS.

BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT ANY OF THE FIVE OF US INTENDED, THAT WE'RE EFFECTIVELY RAISING, WE'RE NOT LOWERING TAXES, YOU'RE RAISING FEES, YOU'RE DOING ALL KINDS OF THINGS HERE. AND SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT JOGS ANY THOUGHTS ON ANYBODY, BECAUSE I DON'T FEEL LIKE ANYBODY'S SINGLE ROW LOOKS THAT OFF. I THINK WE'VE HEARD SOME REALLY INTERESTING IDEAS TONIGHT, ACTUALLY, WAYS THAT WE CAN BETTER SERVE OUR CITIZENS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT WE'RE DOING AN EFFECTIVE TAX INCREASE HERE, AND I DON'T THINK THAT WAS ANYBODY'S INTENT. FOR ME, THE REASON I TOOK THE SIN OUT WAS WE'RE INCREASING PLANNING FEES. SO IF SOMEONE WANTS TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE PROPERTY THEY ALREADY OWN, THEY'RE GOING TO PAY MORE FEES FOR IT IF... THEIR CHILDREN PLAY REC SPORTS. YES, WE'RE GETTING THE AMOUNT THAT PARKS AND TOURISM BUDGET FOR. PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR THE SERVICES THEY USE.

RIGHT, EXACTLY. AND NOT PEOPLE WHO AREN'T USING THE SERVICES.

CORRECT. BUT IT'S AN INCREASE.

AND SO THE EFFECT OF MY ONE CENT WAS TO, YOU KNOW... YOU'RE SHIFTING IT.

YEAH. RIGHT. AND I THINK I UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT RIGHT NOW, OUR CONSENSUS IS TO NOT LOWER THE RATE AT ALL, BUT RAISE FEES. THAT'S A TAX INCREASE. MY PRIMARY CONCERN IS A CONSENSUS, NOT SAYING ANYBODY ASKED FOR THAT. IF I DIDN'T TRY TO REDUCE THE REAL ESTATE RATE IN A YEAR WHERE WE ARE LEAN, THEN I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE I WOULD DO IT IN A YEAR WHERE WE HAVE EXTRA REVENUES.

RIGHT. IF WE WERE TO EQUALIZE AND SAY WE COULD GO TO 78 CENTS NEXT YEAR BECAUSE EQUALIZATION IS 78, THAT'S NOT TAX RELIEF. THAT'S EQUALIZATION. YOU'RE STILL PAYING THE SAME TAXES. I'M NOT GOING TO RUN ON LOWERING THE TAX RATE AS A TAX RELIEF.

THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT IS.

IN MY OWN FAMILY OF IF I MAKE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR, IF I DON'T GET A BONUS, I'M GOING TO SPEND LESS IN CATEGORIES. AND SO THAT'S WHAT I'VE ADOPTED WITH THIS BUDGET. IF I HAD EXTRA REVENUE, I GET A HIGHER SALARY INCREASE, THEN I'LL PROBABLY SPEND MORE MONEY. SO THAT'S WHY I TRIED TO GET THE TAX INCREASE THIS YEAR.

MR. RUE, WHAT IS MR. FORD PUGH'S TOTAL RESOURCES LEFT? BECAUSE HE'S ONE PENNY HIGHER THAN I AM. 262. SO YOU COULD ALMOST FUND THE ONE-YEAR PILOT, MR. PHILLIP PUGH'S ASKING FOR, WHICH IS $200,000 AND $60,000.

NOW, THAT'S ACTUALLY TWO THINGS. IF STAFF COMES BACK AND IT'S FEASIBLE, IS TO FUND THE PILOT PROGRAM AND DO THE VOLUNTEER PIECE, AND MR. FORD PUGH'S PLAN WOULD ACTUALLY BALANCE, I THINK. NOW, WE WOULD HAVE TO ACCEPT THE OTHER CUTS, BUT... WHAT ARE THE OTHER CUTS THAT HE DIDN'T FUND? WELL, HE HAS A HOST OF REDUCTIONS DOWN HERE. AND Y'ALL ARE GOING TO BRING THAT UP. WE ALL HAVE THAT REALLY SCORED ON, RIGHT? RIGHT. HE IS ELIMINATING FUNDING TO OUTSIDE ORGANIZATIONS. HE IS CUTTING WITHIN SOCIAL SERVICES.

MULTIPLE DIFFERENT THINGS. I

[02:15:01]

IN THE PAST, WE'D HAD ONE ATTORNEY THAT WAS DOING ALL THINGS. NOW WE HAVE A FULLY STAFFED ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WITH TWO ATTORNEYS. $30,000 IN ADDITION TO THAT PUTS US AT TWO AND A HALF ATTORNEYS RATHER THAN JUST TWO, WHEREAS IN THE PAST WE ONLY HAD ONE.

NOT SAYING THAT THAT WORKED, IT'S JUST AN INCREASE. SOCIAL SERVICES IS SOMEWHAT SPECIALIZED, AND THAT PERSON THAT WAS DOING IT WAS SPECIALIZED IN THAT PART OF THE LAW. THAT DEPARTMENT INCREASED, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE INCREASED 165% A FEW YEARS AGO. AND SO IF THAT'S THE CASE, I REALLY THINK WE NEED TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THIS OUT OF TRAINING. OR SOMETHING OUT OF THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. $30,000 FOR THAT IS A LOT, CONSIDERING THE INCREASE IN THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOME UNINTENTIONAL CONSEQUENCES. AGREED. I'LL SAY, I DON'T THINK THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES ARE, YOU KNOW, MS. PASTOR'S BREAD AND BUTTER, BUT SHE DID WORK IN PROSECUTION OF CHILD CRIMES.

I THINK IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE SAME, BUT IT COULD BE SOMEWHAT ADJACENT TO HER SKILL SET. I WOULD CONSULT TO SEE IF THAT'S EVEN FEASIBLE FIRST BEFORE WE MAKE A DECISION OF THAT MAGNITUDE. BOTTOM LINE IS, YOU CAN ALWAYS COME DOWN.

YOU CAN'T GO UP. HOW OFTEN HAS THE BOARD DONE THAT? IT'S ALMOST ALWAYS.

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THAT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.

THAT'S JUST THE RULE AT PLAY.

IF YOU ADVERTISE FOR ONE, YOU CAN GO DOWN. YOU CANNOT GO UP ONCE YOU ADVERTISE TO THE PUBLIC. BUT MY ARGUMENT TO THAT WOULD BE IS, HOW OFTEN HAS IT EVER COME DOWN AFTERWARDS? YOU ALMOST ALWAYS SPEND EVERY DOLLAR.

YOU'RE GOING TO BE HARD-PRESSED IF YOU'RE NOT CAREFUL WITH THIS. ONE THING EVERYBODY NEEDS TO KEEP IN THE BACK OF THEIR MIND, WE'RE GETTING READY TO BE HIT WITH SOME HEFTY PRICE TAGS COMING DOWN FROM RICHMOND.

COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, IF THAT GOES THROUGH AND WE GET PEOPLE IN THE COUNTY ON IT, THEY WANT UNIONS. WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT A TAX CUT, WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT A TAX INCREASE.

BUT WE CAN THANK THE PEOPLE IN RICHMOND FOR SENDING THAT DOWN HERE TO US. THAT'S NOT THEIR ONLY THING. NO. SO, MR. CHAIR, TO YOUR POINT, THOUGH, THEN, IF YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT AS LEAN AS IT CAN BE NOW, AND YOU KNOW IT'S COMING IN THE FUTURE, THAT MEANS YOU'RE KEEPING IT HIGH NOW AND IT'S GOING TO GET HIGHER LATER. WHY WOULDN'T YOU START FROM A LOWER NUMBER? I'M A TAXPAYER. I'D LOVE TO SEE THE TAX RATE REDUCED, BUT THIS IS NOT THE YEAR FOR ME. I WON'T SUPPORT IT. I'M KEEPING THE RATE THE SAME.

IT'S TOO MANY UNKNOWNS THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE FACED WITH.

AND LIKE I SAID, I'M SCARED TO DEATH. NEXT YEAR WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT A TAX CUT. WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT A TAX INCREASE. AND NONE OF US WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT. THERE'S THINGS COMING DOWN THE PIKE THAT ARE GOING TO BE COMPLETELY OUT OF OUR CONTROL. AND I'VE BEEN SPEAKING TO IT FOR YEARS. AND THE THREE OF THEM ARE ALREADY ON THE GOVERNOR'S DESK, WHICH IS JUST BELABORING THIS CONVERSATION. I'M WITH MR. COX. I'M NOT WILLING TO GO ANY LESS THAN WHERE I'M AT RIGHT NOW. MR. WEBB, QUITE HONESTLY, THEN WE SHOULD CONTROL THE THINGS WE CAN CONTROL. IF THERE'S THINGS COMING, WE CAN'T. OKAY. STILL GOT TO RUN THE COUNTY.

ABSOLUTELY. AND I THINK IT'S FEASIBLE. I THINK WE'VE GOT TWO EXAMPLES HERE WHERE IT'S POSSIBLE. SORRY, MR. PUGH.

AND MR. PUGH, TO MR. PHILLIP PUGH'S POINT, I WAS WILLING TO BUY INTO THE THING. AS FAR AS THIS TEMPORARY PROGRAM.

BECAUSE IT WOULD HELP GIVE US SOME RELIEF FOR THE SERVICES THAT WE ARE STRUGGLING TO PROVIDE TO THE CITIZENS NOW. BECAUSE WE'RE NOT ADDING. WE'RE NOT ADDING PERMANENT POSITIONS.

AND WE'VE SPENT QUITE A BIT OF MONEY, AND A LOT OF IT CAME OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND, ON THE FIRE ENGINE AND THE TWO AMBULANCES. TO TRY TO GET AHEAD AND YOU STILL GOT TWO REGRADES OUT THERE, OR REFRAME THREE BODIES, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THEM. I'M I'M NOT GOING TO SIT IN ART, THAT'S MY OPINION, I'M I'M STICKING WITH THE 82. I HAVE NO CLUE WHERE WE'RE GOING TO WIND UP AFTER THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY COMES DOWN. UM, MISS BETSY, YES, CAN YOU GO UP? JUST? I JUST WANT TO SEE SOMETHING IN BY LINE ITEM, TO WHICH SECTION? TO THE TAX SECTION ALL THE WAY AT THE TOP. I JUST WANT TO SEE SOMETHING BECAUSE THEY CUT A TWO AND A ONE. CAN YOU CUT JUST A ONE OUT OF MINE? BECAUSE I JUST WANT TO SEE WHAT THE OVERALL NUMBER DOES, I GUESS THE CONSENSUS. CAN I MAKE ONE MORE COMMENT? YES, SIR. THAT ALSO IMPACTS SCHOOLS.

IT DOES. AS WELL AS SOCIAL

[02:20:03]

ON THE SCHOOL SECTION FOR HIS, HE WOULD HAVE TO DECREASE IT BY THE PENNIES WORTH OF FUNDING OFF THE 500 NUMBER HE GAVE. RIGHT. HE IS ALREADY ELECTED TO CUT HALF A MILLION, SO...

YOU WOULD ADD THE ONE PENNIES WORTH, I THINK A LITTLE BIT LOWER, YOU'VE GOT THE CALCULATIONS, SO YOU WOULD ADD... $136,000.

$145,000. THAT WAS AT $145,000. SO IT WOULD GO MINUS A NEGATIVE PLUS, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DO IT. IT WOULD GO CLOSER TO ZERO.

WELL, I WANT TO SEE WHAT THE CONSENSUS IS, WHAT IT DOES TO THE KIDS. THIS WILL BALANCE YOU SO YOU'RE NOT DOUBLE SUBTRACTING. WELL, WE DIDN'T HAVE REALLY A CLEAR CONSENSUS ON THE SCHOOL REDUCTION, IF ANY. WELL, I GUESS IT WOULD BE PLUS 145. I'M SORRY, MR. STEWART. SO HE WOULD GO FROM 500. IF HE ONLY WANTED TO TAKE 500 FROM THE SCHOOLS, IT WOULD BE PLUS THE 145.

WELL, SEE, RIGHT NOW WE'VE GOT A CONSENSUS TO LEVEL FUND. RIGHT. IT'S GOING TO SHOW YOU WHAT YOUR NUMBER LOOKS LIKE. I'M SORRY.

WELL, I MEAN, HE WAS LEAVING THE TAX RATE AT 82 CENTS AND CUTTING SCHOOLS HALF A MILLION. SO WOULDN'T YOU CUT THEM MORE IF YOU DROPPED THE TAX RATE? YOU WOULD SUBTRACT THE ONE, OR YOU WOULD ADD THE 145 BACK TO THE NEGATIVE 500. IT GETS THEM TO THE SAME NEGATIVE 500 BASED ON THE TAX RATE PLUS THE DECREASE. YEAH, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. CHANGE THE NEGATIVE 145 TO PLUS 145, AND THE NUMBER UNDER IT SHOULD GET TO 500. HE WAS ALREADY AT 500.

IN YOUR FORMULA BAR, DO A PLUS 145 INSTEAD OF A NEGATIVE 145.

HE WAS ALREADY CUTTING THEM HALF A MILLION, LEAVING THE TAX RATE AT 82 CENTS. BECAUSE OF EFFECTIVELY, AREN'T YOU ALSO SUBTRACTING $145,000 ON TOP OF THE $500,000? THAT IS WHAT THAT WOULD DO. IT WOULD BECOME A NEGATIVE $648,000 IF WE REDUCED THEM MORE. I WON'T PUT YOUR NAME. IF YOUR INTENT WAS TO CUT $500,000 TOTAL, IF ONE WAY YOU DID, IT WAS THROUGH THE PENNY AND THEN THE REMAINDER. OH, YEAH. NO, NO. I WOULD NOT CUT THE SCHOOL. IF WE CUT A PENNY, I WOULDN'T CUT THE SCHOOL $500,000. I WOULD TAKE IT OFF.

SO IF IT'S $100,000, WHAT IS IT? FORTY-FIVE? FIVE. ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-FIVE THOUSAND. YOU'RE INCREASING SCHOOLS AND CUTTING REVENUE.

IS THAT WHAT YOUR INTENTION IS? YOU'RE CUTTING THE SCHOOLS BY THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-FOUR THOUSAND. BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING THE REMAINDER OF THE TAX RATE.

I WOULDN'T CUT THEM, THAT ONE THIRTY-SIX, OR THAT ONE FORTY-FIVE IS WHAT I'M SAYING.

IF I LOWERED THE TAX RATE, I WOULD EAT THAT COST. RIGHT.

SO YOU LOWER THE TAX RATE, AND IT REDUCES REVENUE, RIGHT? YES, MA'AM. SO YOU'D ALREADY...

SAID LEAVING REVENUE THE SAME, YOU WERE GOING TO CUT THEM HALF A MILLION AT 82 CENT, YES, MA'AM, SO YOU WOULDN'T CUT THEM MORE.

IF YOU WERE CUTTING YOUR REVENUE, YOU WOULD STILL LEAVE THEM AT 500. YOU GOT TO BALANCE. THE OTHER TOTAL IS 500. HIS TOTAL ALREADY WAS 500. IF AT 82 YOU SUBTRACT FIVE, RIGHT, RIGHT, BUT AT 81 THIS BECOMES AN INCREASE IN RESOURCES, RIGHT? THE CUT TO SCHOOLS INCREASES YOUR RESOURCES. RIGHT. SO YOU'RE CUTTING, HE'S CUTTING HIS RESOURCES HERE BY 430. SO IF YOU WANTED THE TOTAL CUT TO BE 500, IT WOULD NOT BE... IT ALREADY IS FIVE.

BUT EFFECTIVELY, YOU'VE DONE 500 PLUS THE 145. WELL, THIS IS OUR GENERAL FUND CUT, RIGHT? RIGHT. WE ARE CUTTING OUR REVENUE BY $430,000 BY CUTTING A PENNY. OF THAT, WE SHARE WITH THE SCHOOLS.

TO AND TO OFFSET THAT, I BELIEVE YOU HAD CUT SCHOOLS BY 208. CORRECT. AND MR. PUGH, FORD PUGH, HAD NOT CUT ANY. SO THIS INCREASED WHAT YOU HAD AVAILABLE TO DO OTHER THINGS WITH. MR. PHILLIP PUGH HAD ALREADY CUT THEM. HALF A MILLION. WOULDN'T CUTTING REVENUE NECESSITATE HIM HAVING TO CUT THEM MORE? SO YOU WOULD HAVE ALREADY CUT THE $145 OUT OF THE ONE PENNY AT THE TOP, AND SO YOU WOULD ONLY DO THE DIFFERENCE OF $500 IN THAT $145 HERE IF YOU WANTED THE TOTAL TO BE $500. I THINK WHAT HE'S TRYING TO SAY IS FACTORING IN THE ONE PENNY. IF I'M

[02:25:01]

IT'S WHATEVER. WHEN I TRACED THE FORMULAS THROUGH EXCEL, THAT'S THE WAY I UNDERSTOOD IT, IS IT WAS? IF YOU TOOK ONE FROM ONE PLACE AND ONE FROM THE OTHER, YOU WERE DOUBLE SUBTRACTING.

BUT THAT'S JUST, THERE'S A LOT OF FORMULAS IN THE SPREADSHEET. SO THE SCHOOL DOESN'T HAVE A FORMULA, LIKE THE OTHER ONE I HAD EARLIER, WHERE IT WAS GIVING ME THE WRONG OUTPUT. REMEMBER? IT WAS SWINGING THE WRONG WAY. IT WAS SWINGING THE WRONG WAY. SO THIS DOESN'T SWING AWAY THAT WHEN YOU DO IT, IT DOESN'T INTERACT WITH THE REST OF THE SPREADSHEET. WHAT THIS DOES IS IT REDUCES YOUR RESOURCES. OKAY. CUTTING THE TAX RATE. REDUCES REVENUES IN THE GENERAL FUND. AND THEN DOWN HERE, THIS IS ALSO A REVENUE LINE ITEM. THIS IS A REVENUE LINE ITEM. THIS IS ACTUALLY AN EXPENDITURE LINE ITEM. SO WHEN WE DECREASE IT, DECREASING IT INCREASES YOUR RESOURCES. OR PUTTING A NUMBER IN HERE INCREASES YOUR RESOURCES. JUST LIKE PUTTING THIS IN. TAKING THIS OUT INCREASES YOUR RESOURCES.

SO, IN OTHER WORDS, IF MR. HAMLIN WANTED THE DESIRED EFFECT TO CUT THEM $500,000, HE WOULD HAVE TO PUT $500,000, NOT DO THE MATHEMATICAL EQUATION.

CORRECT. MY NUMBERS FIND WHERE IT'S AT RIGHT NOW. SO, MR. PHILIP PUGH DID YOU JUST LEAVE IT AT FIVE? I WOULD LEAVE THEM AT FIVE. YES, MA'AM. AND THE ONLY REASON I'M DOING THAT IS JUST TO KIND OF SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT, YOU KNOW. OKAY. SO GOING BACK UP TO THE SCHOOL TRANSFER DISCUSSION, THERE IS STILL, SO UP HERE ON THE REVENUES, IF WE DID THIS, THERE WOULD BE A CONSENSUS.

TO CUT BY AT LEAST A PENNY, AND THE AVERAGE IS 1.3 PENNIES.

I DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW TO PUT THAT CONSENSUS IN. TWO OF YOU HAVE VOTED ONE, ONE OF YOU HAS VOTED TWO. SO IF WE PUT A PENNY IN, THE CONSENSUS WOULD BE HERE.

WORD DRAG US INTO A LARGER, LARGER DEFICIT BELOW, SO OUR DEFICIT NOW IS 474,000.

CAN WE GO THROUGH AND UNDERSTAND HOW EITHER FORD OR MYSELF GOT CLOSER TO ZERO ON THAT THROUGH OUR CHOICES? YES. MR. FORD PUGH DID NOT VOTE ON ANY COLA INCREASES AT ALL.

THEY WERE NOT SCORED. GOING BACK UP HERE, PASSING ALONG, HEALTH INSURANCE INCREASE WAS A YES. DID DO CAREER DEVELOPMENT, NO MARKET REGRADES. THERE WERE REGRADES FOR THE THREE POSITIONS. THERE WAS A STEP INCREASE, BUT THERE WAS NO COST OF LIVING FOR FIRE. NON-PUBLIC

[02:30:06]

THERE WAS A RECORDS CLERK, ONE AND A HALF DEPUTIES, AND THEN HE ALSO SCORED. TO FUND ONE FIRE MEDIC FULL-TIME, AND TO RESTORE THE PART-TIME WAGES, INCREASE BUSES. AND THERE WERE, AND THEN SCORING THIS, BUT THERE WERE A NUMBER OF ELIMINATIONS AND REDUCTIONS HERE THAT, YOU KNOW, TOTALED OVER $200,000. SO WE WANT TO TRY TO GET A CONSENSUS ON SOME OF THE SAVINGS FIRST.

SURE. AND THEN CUT THE, FIGURE OUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO FROM THERE. OKAY. WE HAVE CONSENSUS ON THE.

DURING THE PARK, IS THERE CONSENSUS TO ELIMINATE FUNDING TO PRINCE GEORGE HOPEWELL HEALTHY FAMILIES? I'D LIKE TO SEE THE OTHER CUTS BEFORE I WOULD ENTERTAIN CUTTING.

OKAY. CUTS TO THE JAMES HOUSE AND SENIOR NAVIGATOR, TOTALING $7,500. SO THE QUESTION THERE, IF IT'S NOT A DUPLICATE OF...

CHOICE 137? IT IS NOT. OKAY.

NO. THERE IS A SEPARATE AGENCY CALLED CRATER AREA AGENCY ON AGING THAT REQUESTED $22,000.

THAT IS NOT FUNDED. IT'S NOT A DUPLICATE. SO NOBODY ELSE FUNDED IT EITHER? WE DON'T HAVE CONSENSUS TO FUND IT? NO, WE DIDN'T HAVE CONSENSUS TO SCORE OR ADD THIS TO THE BUDGET. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN ADD. IT'S NOT PART OF THE MUST-DOS. SO THEN WE CAN REMOVE THAT. CORRECT, MR. P? I DON'T KNOW THAT THE $7,500 IS SAVINGS ANYMORE. THE $7,500 IS FUNDED TODAY. IT IS $5,000 TO THE JAMES HOUSE AND $2,500 TO SENIOR NAVIGATOR. OKAY. IT WAS ON THE MUST-DO LIST. IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE FUNDING TODAY. IT WASN'T AN INCREASE, BUT A MAINTAINING. SO WITH THE $7,500 REDUCTION, WE'RE STILL MAINTAINING? NO.

OKAY. NO. WE WOULD BE ELIMINATING FUNDING TO... THE JAMES HOUSE AND SENIOR NAVIGATOR. OKAY. WITH THAT $7,500, THEY WOULD GET NOTHING.

ATTORNEY FEES CUT $30,000, BUT IT IS A $7,500 CUT IN REVENUE AS WELL. HAVE YOU ALL LOOKED AT THIS AND FOUND ANY CUTS YOURSELVES YET? WE DID. THEY'RE AT THE BOTTOM.

OKAY. AND IS THAT TAKEN INTO EFFECT OVER THE OVERALL COST AS WELL? OKAY. THAT'S THE ATTORNEY CONVENTION ON EDUCATION, REDUCE SOCIAL SERVICES BY 03,000. I COULD SEE REDUCING THAT. AND THAT'S JUST SIMPLY TAKING IT BACK TO PRIOR YEAR ACTUAL SPEND, NOT REDUCING PRIOR YEAR BUDGET. I CAN SUPPORT THAT. OKAY, FURNITURE AND FIXTURES. THE SOCIAL SERVICES BUDGET THIS YEAR WAS BUDGETING FOR A VEHICLE. THEY TYPICALLY ROTATE A VEHICLE AND OR REPLACING SOME FURNITURE IN THE HUMAN SERVICES BUILDING.

SO THAT WOULD BE TAKING THAT DOWN TO ZERO. MS. JUDGE, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO FIGHT FOR IN A $5,000 INCREASE THIS YEAR FOR YOUR OFFICE'S FURNITURE AND FIXTURES? I'M SORRY TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT. GOOD AFTERNOON, GENTLEMEN. GOOD AFTERNOON.

YOUR QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT I WANT THE $5,000 IN FURNITURE AND FIXTURES. DO YOU HAVE ANY PLANS FOR IT? IS IT LIKE OFFICE CHAIRS? DO YOU HAVE ANY OFFICE RENOVATIONS THAT YOU WERE LOOKING TO DO WITH IT? WE ARE, YES, WE ARE ACTUALLY CURRENTLY OUT OF SPACE, AND SO WE'RE LOOKING AT WAYS TO USE AN OFFICE WITH SMALLER DESKS TO PUT TWO PEOPLE IN THERE.

ALSO, THE A CONFERENCE ROOM,

[02:35:02]

WE'RE TRYING TO REPLACE THOSE. AND ANY OTHER LITTLE THING, WHEN WE HIRE NEW EMPLOYEES, IT'S NOT OFTEN THAT WE GET A CHAIR, BUT SOMETIMES WE DO NEED A CHAIR. SO THOSE THINGS ALL ROLL INTO THAT TO ALLOW US TO BE ABLE TO FUNCTION APPROPRIATELY. CAN THE CONFERENCE TABLE BE REPAIRED? YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE SOME POSSIBILITY TO REPAIR SOME OF THEM, BUT WE'VE HAD THEM SINCE 2012, AND THEY ARE USED FOR OUR FAMILY PARTNERSHIP MEETINGS, THEY'RE USED FOR OUR STAFF MEETINGS, THEY'RE MOVED AROUND A LOT, SO IT'S JUST WEAR AND TEAR OVER TIME. AND THE THING IS NOW, WITH THE COST OF STUFF, IT'S JUST CHEAPER TO REPLACE IT. INSTEAD OF TRYING TO REPAIR, IT IS, AND IF THERE IS A WAY TO DO ANY TYPE OF REPAIR THAT WE CAN DO OR SOMEONE CAN DO, WE WILL DO THAT. UH, TO TRY TO STRETCH THOSE DOLLARS.

BUT YOU KNOW, IF YOU THINK ABOUT A DESK, TWO SMALL DESKS, IT'S GOING TO BE A THOUSAND DOLLARS EACH.

SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT TWO GRAND, JUST TO PUT TWO EMPLOYEES IN TOGETHER. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, IT IS. AND THE OTHER THING WITH THAT IS THAT $5,000 IS BUDGETED THERE, 75% OF IT IS COMING BACK TO THE COUNTY. 75%. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. LET'S MOVE TO THE NEXT ONE. THANKS. THANK YOU. MOVE AHEAD. APPOMATTOX REGIONAL LIBRARY SYSTEM, MS. PUDLOW HAD. INITIALLY, THEY HAD REQUESTED A 6% INCREASE. HER RECOMMENDATION WAS TO PUT IN A 4%. I BELIEVE THE INTENTION OF MR. HAMILL AND FORD. PEW WAS TO TAKE THEM DOWN TO A 3%, WHICH WOULD TRIM ANOTHER $68.16 FROM THE BUDGET. I'M OKAY WITH THAT. YOU ALL NEED TO REALIZE WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE TAKING SERVICES AWAY FROM PEOPLE THAT NEED IT. GO TO THE LIBRARIES IN THE COUNTY. AND SEE THE KIDS THAT ARE UP THERE CHECKING BOOKS. NONE OF THOSE LIBRARIES ARE SITTING EMPTY. WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS BUDGET, TRYING TO NICKEL-DIME, AND THE PEOPLE WE'RE HURTING ARE THE PEOPLE AT THE LOWEST LEVEL. SO WE'VE GOT TO GET OURSELVES TOGETHER, MAKE UP OUR MIND, BUT LET'S NOT TAKE SERVICES AWAY FROM PEOPLE. WE'RE CUTTING SERVICES. WE'RE NOT CUTTING DOLLARS. WE'RE CUTTING SERVICES. THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN IT. ALL RIGHT, MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A RECOMMENDATION, THEN. OKAY.

WITH EVERYTHING GOING ON IN SOCIETY AND THE WORLD AND PASSING COSTS ALONG AND ALL THAT, I KNOW WE'RE NOT IN A REASSESSMENT YEAR, BUT WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTY. AND I KNOW MR. WEBB'S PROBABLY GOING TO YELL AT ME WHEN I SUGGEST THIS, BUT DO WE TAKE $430,000 OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND TO LOWER THE PENNY, TO GIVE A TAX RELIEF TO THE CITIZENS? UNTIL WE GET A HOLD OF THE NEXT REASSESSMENT AND GIVES US FURTHER TIME, GIVES STAFF FURTHER TIME TO EVALUATE THESE DEPARTMENTS, WE GET THE REVENUES COMING IN FROM THE MEDICAL BILLING, THE POSSIBLE CORRECTION OF THE POLICE BILLING, AND OTHER REVENUE SOURCES. AS FAR AS WHETHER WE LOOK AT THE TRANSIENT TAX RAISING, THAT KIND OF STUFF, LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAVE YOU. GIVES US THAT YEAR AND A HALF TO GET A BASELINE ON IT, BUT DURING THAT YEAR AND A HALF WE'RE GIVING A BREAK TO OUR CITIZENS. WELL, THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THE GENERAL FUND FOR. SO WE CAN'T KEEP RAIDING THE GENERAL FUND TO FUND THE BUDGET. SO IF Y'ALL ARE DETERMINED TO CUT THE THING A PENNY, GET IN THERE AND FIND THE CUTS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE ON YOUR LINE ITEMS. THAT'S ALL I CAN TELL YOU. I'M NOT CHANGING MINE. I WENT THROUGH MINE. I THINK I'VE GOT 230-SOME THOUSAND LEFT, MR. RORY. YOU HAVE 28,000. THAT'S WHY WE MADE SOME CHANGES. YES, SIR. MINE'S NOT HIGHER AS IT IS BECAUSE I MADE CHANGES AT THE BEGINNING AND I HAVEN'T GONE BACK THROUGH IT. BECAUSE I WAS $1,298, SOMETHING TO THE GOOD. YES, SIR. ONE THING TO CONSIDER ON THAT, THOUGH,

[02:40:01]

INDIVIDUALLY, YOUR COST OF LIVING IS WHAT YOU SCORED IT TO BE. SO THE COST OF LIVING BACK UP. SO FOR POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE CONSENSUS, OR THE AVERAGE, IS TWO AND A HALF. FIRE IS THREE. AND NON-PUBLIC SAFETY, I'VE PUT IN AT 2.3 WITH THE AVERAGE. SO WITH THOSE COLA AVERAGES, IS THERE ALSO A STEP INCREASE AS WELL? YES. THE STEP INCREASE WAS SCORED UNANIMOUSLY TO RECEIVE. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE DOLLAR VALUE IS OF THE STEP INCREASE AND THEN THE DOLLAR VALUE OF THE COLA INCREASES COMBINED? YES, SIR. THE STEP INCREASE IS $398,642. AND THEN THE COLA'S THAT ARE IN BY CONSENSUS. ARE A MILLION THIRTY THOUSAND SEVEN, EIGHTY THREE. I THINK I MIGHT HAVE ADDED ALL FOUR. THE COLAS ARE SIX, THIRTY, TWO, ONE, FORTY, ONE BY THEMSELVES, AND WHEN ADDING TO THE STEP INCREASE, THAT'S THE MILLION THIRTY. SO IF CONSENSUS IS TO GIVE A COLA INCREASE, WOULD ANYONE ENTERTAIN THE THOUGHT OF REMOVING THE STEP TO REFUND SERVICES THAT WE'RE TAKING AWAY FROM? I CAN'T AGREE WITH THAT, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE DOING A, YOU KNOW, WE VOTED ON A PLAN. I THINK WE NEED TO DO THE STEP PLAN. I THINK YOU ADJUST YOUR COLA, POSSIBLY, BUT THAT'S ABOUT IT ON MY END. WE NEED TO HONOR WHAT WE AGREED TO.

YEAH. AND WE ALSO GOT THE 2% INCREASE THAT'S MANDATED BY THE STATE. WHICH I THINK IS ALREADY IN ANOTHER LINE ITEM, CORRECT? IT'S NOT IN ADDITION, OR IT WOULD BE IN ADDITION TO THESE NUMBERS.

IT'S A MUST DO. AND THOSE EMPLOYEES THAT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THE STATE WOULD RECEIVE THE HIGHER OF THE 2% MANDATED. OR WHAT THE COUNTY DOES IN TOTAL FOR NON-PUBLIC SAFETY. SO IF WE ALL DID WHAT THE GOVERNMENT SAYS, WHICH IS 2% OF A COLA.

PLUS A 1.5% STEP, THAT WOULD BE A 3.5% RAISED CROSS-BOARD, WOULD IT NOT? THAT WOULD BE A 3.5%. AND WHAT ARE WE DOING NOW? FOUR? WELL, IT VARIES BY WHETHER OR NOT IT'S PUBLIC SAFETY. SO THE COLA FOR FIRE IS IN AT THREE, SO THEY WOULD BE FOUR AND A HALF.

FOR POLICE, IT'S TWO AND A HALF, SO THEY WOULD BE FOUR.

AND THEN 2.3 AND 1.5 IS 3.8.

CORRECT. SO, AGAIN, THE STATE EMPLOYEES, THE SOCIAL SERVICES AND RCJA WOULD RECEIVE A 2% INCREASE, MINIMALLY. IF THE COUNTY DOES MORE. THEY WOULDN'T GET BOTH. THEY WOULD GET THE HIGHER OF. RIGHT. THE SAME IS TRUE FOR THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS. THEY WOULD GET THE HIGHER OF WHAT THE COUNTY DOES FOR NON-PUBLIC SAFETY, OR THE 2% ON THEIR COMP BOARD FUNDED SALARY. IT'S ONLY FAIR, THOUGH. RIGHT. SO YOU WANT TO AT LEAST BE EQUITABLE. YEAH.

SO WHAT WOULD BE EQUITABLE IS THE STEP.

AT A 1.5% PLUS A 0.5% COLA, THAT WOULD GET EVERYBODY TO A 2% INCREASE. SO THE COLA ADDS TO THAT 1.5% STEP.

WOULDN'T THE COMP BOARDS GET A STEP AS WELL, THOUGH? A LOT OF IT DEPENDS. I KNOW THAT A

[02:45:02]

SO THEY ARE OFF STEP. OKAY. SO I GUESS YOU WOULD HAVE TO SAY AN APPROPRIATE STEP IF THEY'RE OFF STEP? IF THEY'RE ELIGIBLE.

WE TYPICALLY LOOK AT THEM, AGAIN, WE GIVE THE WHATEVER COLA THE COUNTY HAS AND LOOK AT WHAT THE STEP THEY SHOULD BE ON BASED ON THEIR EXPERIENCE.

EXPERIENCE AND DO THE HIGHER OF THAT OR THE 2% ON THEIR SALARY. MS. DRURY, WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE IF YOU HAD THE STEP? PLUS? WHATEVER YOU SAY GETS US TO COLA? IS IT HALF? A HALF A PERCENT FOR EVERYONE. IF THAT WERE THE CONSENSUS, JUST AS AN EXAMPLE TO UNDERSTAND HOW THAT BALANCES.

THAT GIVES EVERYONE ABOUT A 2% INCREASE, IF YOU WILL. AND WE STILL HAVE SOME REDUCTIONS THAT WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THROUGH AT THE BOTTOM, SO I'LL JUST SAY THAT. WE ARE 42,000 TO THE GOOD IF THE CONSENSUS WAS TO DO A HALF A PERCENT COLA ON ALL THE SCALES AND STEP. TO FUND THE POSITIONS THAT WERE FUNDED BY CONSENSUS, TO TAKE THESE REDUCTIONS AND OR INCREASES TO RIGHT SIZE, AND MAKING THESE, ADDING THIS GRASS CUTTING, CUTTING THE CONVENTION AND EDUCATION, TAKING THE LIBRARY.

DOWN TO A 3% INCREASE OVER WHERE THEY ARE THIS YEAR.

THAT GETS US TO 42, AND THAT IS CUTTING THE TAX RATE BY A PENNY. CAN YOU PUT THE LIBRARY BACK IN, AND THEN LET'S GO THROUGH THE ITEMS THAT ARE MARKED AS NOT IN LINE WITH PRIOR YEAR.

SORRY, I'M PROBABLY GIVING ALL OF YOU A SEIZURE. SCROLLING UP AND DOWN, I'M SORRY. YOUR THUMB'S GOING TO NEED PHYSICAL THERAPY.

YEP, CARPAL TUNNEL. OKAY, SO THE LIBRARY RIGHT HERE. SO IF I TAKE OUT THIS, OBVIOUSLY THAT MAKES THE BALANCING $35,000.

AND NOW WE WANT TO GO THROUGH A FEW MORE OF THESE.

SO, COLUMN G SAYS ACTUALS NEVER MEET, ASK, AND MISS LUDLOW HASN'T MADE A COMMENT ABOUT IT. THEN LET'S RUN THROUGH THOSE AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN. OKAY, WE RESTORED THAT.

THIS IS THE DATA STORAGE, THE CLOUD STORAGE, AS OPPOSED TO CD-ROM FOR POLICE DEPARTMENT. POLICE SUPPLIES, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT WAS, I THINK YOU HAD ASSUMED THAT WAS BECAUSE OF THE NEW POSITIONS.

IT'S NOT. PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, I DON'T SEE WHERE THAT WAS A NEVER MEETS ACTUAL.

KEEP GOING. I THINK THAT IS PROJECT DRIVEN, VMWARE, IT CONVENTION, I DON'T SEE A NOTE THERE. MR. ERIE, THAT $42,000, IS THAT LEVEL FUNDING THE SCHOOLS AS WELL, OR IS THAT NOT A CONSENSUS ON THAT YET? I BELIEVE I DID NOT LIST ANY CUT TO THE SCHOOLS.

SO THAT'S LEVEL FUNDING THE

[02:50:01]

WITH INFLATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I JUST, THAT'S MY, I MEAN, 0.5 IS TOUGH. WHEN GAS HAS GONE UP A DOLLAR, YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. THAT WOULD GO UP ANOTHER 1%, WHICH IS... DO WE WANT TO GO THROUGH THAT? LET'S GO THROUGH THE REST OF THESE, AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO AS FAR AS COLA GOES. THE IT PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, THE VMWARE, YOU KNOW, MR. YOUNG DID COME TO THE PODIUM. YOU KNOW, WE COULD... STRETCH OUT REPLACEMENTS, BUT IT'S REALLY POSTPONING THINGS THAT ARE ON A CYCLICAL REPLACEMENT. THE TRAINING AND CONVENTION IN IT, $3,500. ANIMAL SERVICES BASED ON ACTUAL SPEND. I DON'T KNOW THAT. WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT WITH OFFICIALS FOR PARKS AND REC, EITHER.

SPECIAL ACTIVITIES A SUGGESTION TO CUT BY 5,000 BECAUSE OF ACTUAL PRIOR YEARS. IT IS PROBABLY THE WAY REVENUE OR EASE ARE COMING IN. DID WE FUND THE PART-TIME SPECIAL ACTIVITIES POSITION? THE ONLY POSITIONS THAT ARE IN ARE THE RECORDS CLERK AND A SHERIFF'S DEPUTY AND A HALF. AMBULANCE SUPPLIES, AGAIN, IT WOULD BE A RISK TO CUT THOSE WITHOUT HAVING A GREAT HANDLE ON ACTUALS. SINCE THE HOSPITAL MEDICAL TRANSITION HAS OCCURRED, I BELIEVE THIS IS THE FIRST.

FULL YEAR WE WILL EXPERIENCE WITH THAT CHANGE. THIS IS ANOTHER DISCUSSION ITEM THAT WE WERE WANTING TO MEET WITH THE CHIEF OF POLICE ABOUT. AS SOON AS HE GETS AN OFFICE MANAGER AS WELL, IS JUST EVALUATING, SORRY, FIRE CHIEF. IT'S BEEN A LONG NIGHT. THE FIRE CHIEF, JUST TO REVIEW LINE ITEMS AND HOW THEY'RE CODING. AND SO THERE ARE... SPENDING THOSE FUNDS, ARE THEY BEING CODED CORRECTLY? SO THAT WOULD BE A NEXT KIND OF AUDIT THAT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE. BUT ANYWAY, JUST DISCUSSION. SO WHEN YOU SAY ACTUALS NEVER MEET, ASK, THAT MIGHT BE PART OF IT. AND YES, AND SO I'D BE NERVOUS TO, YOU KNOW, ANYWAY, COMMENT WITHOUT KNOWING MORE. HAS MY RESPONSE TEAM, YOU KNOW, THEY, I BELIEVE THERE WAS A REQUEST IN THE 20. FIVE BUDGET THAT WAS NOT EXPENDED AND IT ROLLED INTO 26. AND I KNOW THERE HAS BEEN THE MESSAGE TO GET WHATEVER ORDERED, ORDERED. SO THAT IS A REDUCTION. ALL RIGHT, SO THAT $13,000 REDUCTION, WHAT WAS IT THAT WE WERE ORDERING? DO WE KNOW? AND IS THAT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE BILLED TO THE INSURANCE COMPANY WHEN WE GO OUT? EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT SHOULD BUILD IT. BILL IT, I BELIEVE. OKAY, THE 13,000 HAZMAT SUPPLIES. SO WE, I THINK WE GO BACK A FEW YEARS, WE HAD TO REFURBISH AND RESTOCK EVERYTHING ON THE HAZMAT TEAM.

RIGHT. SO THIS IS A PART OF THAT AND MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE STILL INTACT. WE DID PUT IN FOR A HAZMAT. WE WERE HOLDING OFF TO NOT SPEND THAT

[02:55:02]

HOWEVER, THIS GRANT IS NOW ON HOLD BECAUSE THERE'S SOME DISPUTE WITH. SO I, INSTEAD OF SPENDING THE COUNTY'S MONEY RIGHT NOW, WE'RE HOLDING OFF TO SEE IF WE CAN GET THE MONEY FROM THE GRANT AND SPEND THAT MONEY. SAVE THIS MONEY. SO, IN OTHER WORDS, WE CAN CUT THAT 13, THEN? IF WE'RE GETTING A GRANT, AND THEN YOU CAN, IF WE DON'T GET THE GRANT, YOU CAN ALWAYS COME BACK TO US, CORRECT? YEAH, I THINK THAT'S AN OPTION. ALL RIGHT.

YOU CAN PUT ME DOWN FOR THAT $13,000, THEN. AND IS IT A CONSIDERATION TO TAKE THAT FROM A PENNY OUT OF THE EQUIPMENT? IT'S HAZMAT RELATED ENOUGH TO, SO WE'VE GOT THE TWO PENNIES FOR APPARATUS, ONE PENNY FOR EQUIPMENT. YEAH, BUT I THINK WE HAVE OTHER, MORE. OVER PRIORITY EQUIPMENT THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE REQUESTING, LIKE THE MONITORS AND THAT KIND OF THING, OKAY, THE THE MAINTENANCE SERVICE CONTRACTS AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE QUANTIFIED THE THE LISTING OF THE OF THE ITEMS FOR WHICH WE ARE CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED.

AND I KNOW THERE WERE SOME INCREASES BASED ON THINGS THAT THE STATE IS NOT PAYING, PART OF THE ESO PLATFORM BEING THE MAIN THING. VEHICLE AND EQUIPMENT FUEL, YOU KNOW, THAT IS, OF COURSE, IS A RISKY CUT. IT'S AN UNKNOWN. THE RACK SPACE, I THINK WE NEED MORE INFORMATION.

FOOD SUPPLIES, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THAT COULD AFFECT. THE REIMBURSEMENT LEVEL. I DON'T KNOW THAT. ALL STATIONS WERE CONSISTENTLY REQUESTING REIMBURSEMENT FROM ADMIN. THAT COULD BE PART OF THE REASON THAT THE ACTUAL SPEND WAS LOW.

OFFICE SUPPLIES, SAME THING WOULD APPLY. THAT WOULD BE, I GUESS, ACROSS FIRE DMS. PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, IN THE BUILDING OFFICIAL'S OFFICE, AGAIN, THAT'S KIND OF AN UNKNOWN.

FROM YEAR TO YEAR, WHAT BIG PROJECTS MIGHT COME DOWN THE PIKE FOR MR. HARRISON AND HIS TEAM, WHERE THEY NEED THIRD-PARTY ASSISTANCE, CONVENTION AND EDUCATION AT THE ECC. MR. BOSSERMAN ACTUALLY SAID THAT HE FOUND A CHEAPER ALTERNATIVE, SO THAT IS A POSSIBLE CUT THAT I THINK WILL NOT IMPACT OPERATIONS.

MR. CHAIR, WOULD THE BOARD LIKE TO ADD CONSENSUS FOR THAT ITEM? MR. BOSSERMAN SUPPORTS FINDING A CHEAPER ALTERNATIVE. I'M IN AGREEANCE WITH THAT. I'LL GIVE A CONSENSUS FOR THAT. I'M GOOD WITH THAT ONE. OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. BOSSERMAN. OKAY, ANIMAL SERVICES, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, 04,600 IS THE ENTIRE REQUEST FOR ANIMAL SERVICES. ITS BUDGET IS 3,600 TODAY. THERE ARE SOME TRAINING NEEDS, OPPORTUNITIES, I THINK, FOR IMPROVEMENT.

ASSESSOR'S OFFICE, I BELIEVE THAT MS. PUDLOW SAID SHE WAS OKAY WITH THAT REDUCTION, TAKING THE TRAINING BUDGET.

DOWN BY 2,500, IT IS 11,000 NOW. MR. CHAIR. YES, SIR. THE ONLY, AND THIS IS TO THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS, THE ONLY WAY I WOULD ENTERTAIN.

POSSIBLY CUTTING THE CONVENTION IN EDUCATION FOR ANIMAL SERVICES IS IF WE LOOK TO FIND MONEY TO TRY TO STAFF THAT KENNEL ATTENDANCE POSITION. HOW MUCH WAS THAT LINE ON THEM? I THINK IT WAS 60, BUT I MEAN, IT'S A LONG WAY TO GO TO GET TO IT, BUT THAT WOULD BE A... A GOAL OF MINE IF I SUPPORTED THAT.

AND WE CERTAINLY COULDN'T ELIMINATE THEIR TRAINING BUDGET. WELL, JUST WHATEVER, THE NEW ONE. IT'S $3,600 TODAY.

THEY REQUESTED A $1,000 INCREASE TO $4,600. I THOUGHT IT WAS A $4,600 INCREASE. NO, NO. THAT WAS THEIR TOTAL REQUEST. OKAY. IS THERE ANY AGREEMENT? GET A CONSENSUS TO KNOCK $1,000 AND LEVEL FUND IT? $1,000. WOULD CHIEF EARLY MIND COMING UP? COULD I OFFER THAT? WE TAKE THE THOUSAND,

[03:00:01]

WE COULD FIND OUT, BUT I KNOW HE'S GOT A PLAN, A LOGICAL, REASONABLE PLAN FOR THAT INCREASE. THANKS, SIR.

I'M HAPPY TO PULL UP THE ANIMAL SERVICES BUDGET AND SEE IF THERE IS. I'M CUTTING THE ASSESSOR'S OFFICE RIGHT NOW.

LET ME GET TO THE SEE IF THERE IS A DETAIL. ATTACHMENT. YES.

SO THEY CAN SEE IT. I'VE GOT IT. SO THEY ARE REQUESTING VACA STATE ANNUAL CONFERENCE FOR THREE EMPLOYEES FOR 2100 AND SPECIALTY TRAINING THROUGHOUT THE YEAR TO MEET TRAINING REQUIREMENTS.

THAT IS AS DETAILED AS THEY GOT, BUT MR. LINEBERGER DID EMAIL CHARLEY WHEN SHE ASKED HIM TO SUPPORT THAT. THE SPECIALTY TRAININGS INCLUDE THE VIRGINIA FEDERATION OF HUMANE SOCIETY'S VFHS CONFERENCE, ANIMAL FIRST AID TRAINING, GRANT WRITING TRAINING CODE, THREE ASSOCIATES, ANIMAL CONTROL RELATED TRAINING, AND ADDITIONAL COURSES THAT BECOME AVAILABLE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

SO THOSE ARE THE TRAININGS THAT HE HAS SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED.

JUST LEAVE IT IN AND KEEP GOING. NO REDUCTION. AGREED. THE ASSESSORS CONVENTION ON EDUCATION 2500, I BELIEVE YOU ALREADY... YOUR MIC IS OFF, MS. DRURY. OH, SORRY. THE ASSESSORS CONVENTION ON EDUCATION, I BELIEVE THERE WAS ALREADY CONSENSUS WITH MS. PUDLOW'S AGREEMENT TO REDUCE THAT. OFFICE SUPPLIES, WE ALREADY REDUCED AT THE BOTTOM IN OUR RIGHT-SIZING. RCJA SUBSISTENCE AND LODGING, AGAIN, A $2,000 REDUCTION IN THAT SPECIAL REVENUE FUND RESULTS IN A $960 REDUCTION IN YOUR GENERAL FUND TRANSFER TO RCJA. MS. WOFF DID INDICATE THAT, IF IT WAS NECESSARY, THAT REDUCTION COULD BE MADE.

GO AHEAD AND PUT ME DOWN FOR THAT FOR RIGHT NOW, JUST TO SEE WHERE WE GET AT THE BOTTOM. INCREASE IN BOARDING OF ANIMALS. WE MAY NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION ON THAT, A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH ON THAT. POLICE SECURITY, SAME. I BELIEVE WE WOULD WANT TO GET A PLAN AND COME TO YOU WITH A RECOMMENDATION TO BE ABLE TO INCREASE THOSE BILLABLE SERVICE FEES. AND THEN WE KNOW WE NEED TO DO MORE WORK AND FIRE AN EMS. ALL OF THESE WE AGREED TO, BUT CONSENSUS RIGHT NOW PUTTING IN,

[03:05:08]

SORRY, WAS THAT YOU, MR. PHILLIPPE? YES, MA'AM. I'M SORRY. OKAY. SORRY. AND THAT'S STILL JUST TWO VOTES TO ADD THAT AT THIS POINT.

MR. JURY, I THINK, MR. PHILLIPPE HAD MADE A POINT ABOUT TRYING TO STRETCH FOR 3.5%. NOTEPAD MATH WOULD SAY THAT THAT WOULD ADD AN ADDITIONAL $250,000. IS THAT MATH CHECKOUT? OKAY, SO DID YOU WANT TO GET TO THREE OR THREE AND A HALF? I WOULD SAY THREE.

OKAY, SO I'M GOING TO PUT A ONE AND A HALF PERCENT COLA ON ALL OF THE PAY RANGES. AND THAT GETS US TO ABOUT A $200,000 DEFICIT. AND IF WE DO IT AT 2.5%, THAT'S GOING TO KNOCK IT DOWN TO... BECAUSE WHAT WAS IT, A 2%? WHAT YOU WOULD BE WITHIN, IF WE HAD ONE MORE YES ON EMS BILLING, ASSUMING THAT WE GET THE EXTRA $160,000, WE WOULD BE UNDER $40,000 RIGHT NOW. YOUR DEFICIT WOULD BE ABOUT $40,000? ABOUT $40,000 UNDER. I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN DO EXTRA DECIMAL POINTS ON THE, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO GET THE COAL UP, YOU KNOW.

1.7, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A REAL THING, BUT THAT'S HOW CLOSE YOU ARE.

SO DID YOU MEAN TAKE THE COLA DOWN TO ONE TO GIVE A TOTAL OF A 2.5%? YES, MA'AM. OKAY.

AND I'LL JUST MAKE A STATEMENT REAL QUICK. WE'RE PLAYING WITH NUMBERS UP HERE, AND I WANT STAFF TO REALIZE IF I COULD GIVE A 10% RAISE, I WOULD. I THINK THE STAFF IS WARRANTED, AND THEY DO GREAT WORK. WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GIVE SOME AID TO THE CITIZENS AND TRY TO GET THE NECESSARY POSITIONS TO OFFSET THE WORKLOAD FOR SOME OF THESE EMPLOYEES.

AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT THIS IS AN OFF-BUDGET YEAR. I DO KNOW THAT. SO I JUST WANT YOU ALL TO BEAR WITH US. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A BETTER YEAR NEXT YEAR, HOPEFULLY. AND THAT'S WHEN. HOPEFULLY WE'LL HAVE MORE REVENUE COMING IN AND CAN BE ABLE TO DO A LITTLE BIT BETTER FOR OUR EMPLOYEES THAN WHAT WE'RE DOING THIS YEAR. SO THAT BRINGS THE DEFICIT DOWN TO 93.

SORRY, I'M NOT AT THE BOTTOM.

SORRY. IT BRINGS IT DOWN TO 72. SO IF WE HAD ANOTHER MEMBER POSSIBLY ADD THAT 160 IN REVENUE JUST FOR GIGGLES, THAT WOULD GIVE US ENOUGH MONEY TO POSSIBLY FUND A KENNEL ATTENDANT. IT SHOULD BE PLUS 90. YOU WOULD BE RIGHT ON THE MONEY. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET IT FROM ME. CAN YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT THE 81,000 BUS INCREASE? YES, SIR. EARLY IN THIS BUDGET YEAR, MR. BARNES SENT US A REQUEST SAYING THAT WHAT WE ARE TRANSFERRING TODAY DOES NOT PURCHASE FOUR BUSES. AND SO THAT WAS THEIR REQUEST FOR FY27. OF COURSE, THE COST OF BUSES IS HIGHER.

[03:10:01]

BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO TIGHTEN OUR BELTS, THEN IT NEEDS TO BE ACROSS THE BOARD. WHILE WE'RE ON THE TOPIC, I'M GOING TO BRING THIS UP. WHEN IT COMES TO CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS, WE'VE ALREADY GOT ONE THAT'S NOT COVERED BY THE STATE.

WE'VE GOT NOTHING FROM THE STATE, AND WE'RE ADDING ONE AND A HALF MORE. I CAN DEFEND THOSE TWO CHOICES.

WHEN I LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF PAPERS THAT DEPARTMENT IS SERVING, I'M CONCERNED WE'RE GOING TO GO UPSIDE DOWN NEXT YEAR.

AND I'M CONCERNED WITH THE POLICE OFFICERS THAT ARE OUT HERE 24-7, WHEN THEY'RE OUT HERE BY THEMSELVES, ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, WHEN THEY HAVE TO PULL SOME OF THESE CRAZY-ASS PEOPLE THAT WE'RE RUNNING UP AGAINST NOW, LIKE THAT HOME INVASION AND DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT. I AM ADDRESSING YOUR COMMENT ABOUT THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICER. THAT'S ALL I'M ANSWERING. AND I WENT ALONG WITH MR. PUGH'S THING WITH THE POTENTIAL FOR THE TRIAL PROGRAM. BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, WE'RE LUCKY IF WE GOT TWO FULL-TIME PEOPLE IN EITHER ONE OF THE PAID STATIONS. THAT CAN REACT AT A MOMENT'S NOTICE.

INCLUDING THE MANDATORY 72 HOURS, A LOT OF THEM ARE WORKING. THAT'S NOT HEALTHY AND IT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE. DIDN'T LAST WEEK WE TALK ABOUT A GRANT FOR FUNDING ON A SHERIFF'S DEPUTY? WE APPROVED ONE TO GO AFTER A GRANT, BUT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE YOU'RE GOING TO GET IT. ALL RIGHT, SO WE DIDN'T RECEIVE A GRANT THEN YET? NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.

MR. ANAHILL RECEIVED A DCJS...

CSIP GRANT THAT IS FUNDING A PART-TIME TEMPORARY DEPUTY, NOT A PART-TIME REGULAR, FOR RECOVERY COURT SPECIFICALLY.

IT IS NOT FOR THE SHERIFF AT LARGE. IT IS JUST HER RECOVERY COURT. OKAY, SO THERE IS A $72,000 DEFICIT. ONE OF TWO THINGS, YOU KNOW, THE R&EMS BILLING REVENUE, OR WE LOOK AT ADDITIONAL REDUCTIONS, OR WE LOOK AT POSSIBLY LOWERING THE GENERAL FUND CONTINGENCY FROM WHERE IT IS TODAY. WE'RE ALSO OVER ONE CENT ON THE REDUCTION. CONSENSUS IS ABOVE ONE CENT. WHAT IF WE TAKE IT TO ONE CENT? I DID. I ONLY PUT IT IN AT ONE CENT. I DID NOT PUT IT IN AT 1.3. OKAY. SO WE ARE ONE CENT. THANKS. SURE. SO OUR GENERAL FUND CONTINGENCY TODAY IS $113,971. TO TAKE IT TO BALANCE... YOU COULD CUT YOUR GENERAL FUND CONTINGENCY BY THE $70,000 TO BALANCE. I DON'T THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.

I THINK, IF ANYTHING, YOU CAPITALIZE ON THE REVENUE STREAM. THAT IS A CONSERVATIVE NUMBER, WHICH WOULD PUT US IN THE GREEN, AND THEN WE'D BE ABLE TO POSSIBLY... FUND ANOTHER NEEDED CRITICAL POSITION. I WOULD NEED ONE MORE BOARD MEMBER TO... I'M TRYING TO SELL IT RIGHT NOW. MY CONCERN IS STILL THE SAME.

WE'RE BETTING ON A CONE, AND YOU OUGHT TO KNOW THAT.

YOU'VE BEEN TO THE CASINO A COUPLE TIMES. I HAVE. I HAVE.

PUT IT ON RED. I'M JUST WORRIED ABOUT IT. I KNOW THEY'VE GOT AN ESTIMATE. I KNOW THEY'D WORK ACROSS THE STATE WITH DIFFERENT PEOPLE. BUT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WHAT WE'VE GOT IS GOING TO BE EASY TO COLLECT. AND WE'RE BETTING ON SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO COST US MONEY IF IT DOESN'T GO.

I'LL SUPPORT YOU, COLONEL. I'LL ATTEND IT IF YOU SUPPORT MY 160. CAN'T DO IT. CAN'T DO IT.

I'LL TELL YOU WHAT WE CAN DO.

WHAT CAN WE DO, MS. COX? LET'S GO BACK AND TAKE OUT THE...

TRIAL THAT YOU WANT TO RUN, AND IT'S 60,000 FOR THE VOLUNTEERS THIS YEAR.

IS THAT IN THERE AS CONSENSUS? IT'S NOT IN THERE. WE DID NOT DO THE TRIAL OR THE... THAT WOULD BE OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND TO FUND THOSE THINGS IF WE CHOSE TO.

ONCE WE GOT THE INFORMATION.

THE ONLY THING THAT WE PUT IN AS CONSENSUS WAS TO DO THE

[03:15:01]

BUT IF WE TAKE THAT OUT, WE NEED TO GIVE THEM THE PART-TIME PEOPLE BACK.

BUT OVERALL, THAT'S A COST SAVINGS. DID WE TAKE THE $100,000 OUT FROM PLANNING ON CONSENSUS? YES, WE DID. YES, WE DID. AND WE'VE ALREADY WIPED THE CONTRIBUTION TO DEBT RESERVE.

WHAT WAS YOU GUYS' COLA? WHERE DID YOU WIND UP? THREE? WELL, NO, WE'RE ALL ACROSS THE BOARD ESTIMATING IT TWO AND A HALF TOTAL STEP PLUS COLA. WE WOULD HAVE TO DROP THAT BACK TO 0.5 TO BALANCE. IS THERE A CONSENSUS TO DO THAT? ALL RIGHT, GENTLEMEN. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO? I CAN TELL YOU STRAIGHT UP, I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU CONSENSUS ON ANYTHING ELSE.

UNTIL I HAVE TIME TO REALLY ABSORB THIS, BECAUSE I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH SOME OF THE STUFF WE'RE DOING. I THINK IT'S GOING TO BITE US IN THE ASS. EXCUSE MY FRENCH. WELL, AND WE ALSO HAVE A FEW THINGS THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE IF THERE'S MORE CUTS POSSIBLE AS WELL. SO, I MEAN, I THINK THESE AREN'T THE FINAL NUMBERS ANYWAY, TO YOUR POINT, MR. WEBB. AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE SCHOOLS. WELL, I THINK IN THIS MODEL, WE LEVEL FUND. YEAH, WE LEVEL FUNDED IN SCHOOLS. I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEY MIGHT GET FROM THIS STATE. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MORE OR LESS? LESS. IS THAT WHAT THEY'RE TRENDING TO? YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT REDUCTIONS NOW? YOU'VE GOT THOSE THREE BILLS THAT ARE ON SPANTBERGER'S DESK RIGHT NOW TO SIGN. NONE OF THEM ARE GOING TO BE GOOD FOR THE COUNTY. WHEN WOULD THOSE TAKE EFFECT, JULY 30TH? JULY 1ST. JULY 1ST? THERE'S SOME BIG NUMBERS, GUYS. YEAH.

MR. RAPPAPORT COMMENTED ON THAT ONE, ON A COLLECTIVE THING. THAT WAS $5 MILLION. THERE'S NO WAY SHE CAN EVEN ESTIMATE THAT, EVEN BEING CONSERVATIVE.

WELL, IF WE ADVERTISE AT $0.82 AND WE APPROVED AT $0.82 AND THEN THE STATE COMES DOWN JULY 1ST, WHAT HAPPENS? IF YOU ADVERTISE AT $0.82. UP UNTIL THE TIME WHERE WE THINK WE'VE GOT SOMEBODY TO COME AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, MR. RAPPAPORT, WE CAN ALWAYS LOWER IT. WE CAN GO BACK UP. YES, SIR. THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING.

YOU CAN ADOPT A RATE. THAT IS LOWER THAN WHAT YOU ADVERTISE, BUT NOT HIGHER. MY TWO CENTS IS WE ADVERTISE AT 82 CENT JUST FOR AN UNKNOWN, BUT WE TRY TO BUILD ON THE 81 CENT BUGS WORKING. IF WE THINK WE'RE GOING TO END UP SHORT ON THE SCHOOL SIDE, WE'RE BUILDING A BUFFER RIGHT NOW.

IF YOU CAN GET IT TO FLOAT AT ONE PENNY AND WE LOSE THAT MONEY, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO BACK TO 82. IF YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO COME UP SHORT. SO WE'RE BUILDING A BUFFER. IF IT COMES UP, LEVEL. WE'RE GOOD. IF IT DOESN'T COME UP LEVEL, WE'VE GOT BUFFER, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO KNOW THAT TO THE LAST MINUTE. YOU MAY NOT KNOW IT UNTIL AUGUST, SEPTEMBER. YES, SIR. THE DEFINITION OF LEVEL FUNDING AS OF TODAY THAT KEEPS GETTING REFERENCED TONIGHT, THAT IS BASED OFF OF THE MODIFIED MOU, CORRECT? NO, SIR. THAT IS BASED ON WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY TRANSFERRING TO THEM THIS YEAR. IT IS KEEPING THEM WHERE THEY ARE TODAY, DESPITE THE REDUCTION IN THE FUNDING FORMULA. BASED ON ALL THE REQUESTS, PLUS THE FACT THAT WHATEVER THAT SPECIALIST IS THAT THEY WANT TO PUT IN THE SCHOOLS, THAT'S ANOTHER $45,000, $48,000 THAT WOULD BE MANDATED FOR THE SCHOOLS. I'M GOING TO PICK MY WORDS RIGHT HERE. I'M GOING TO LEAVE IT AT THAT.

IT'S AN EXTRA PERSON IN THE SCHOOLS TO HELP THAT'S GOT SPECIALTY TRAINING. THAT, THEY SAY, NEEDS TO BE IN THE SCHOOLS. ALL RIGHT. I DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE CHAIR OF THE VICE CHAIR'S THUNDER.

DO WE WANT TO PUNT ON THIS ITEM UNTIL WE GET SOME DELIVERABLES BACK TO US? COULD WE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO PUT TOGETHER A LINE ITEM BUDGET.

COULD WE BALANCE ON CONTINGENCY? UNTIL WE BRING YOU POSSIBLE REDUCTIONS.

THOSE, THOUGH, COULD BE A MONTH OR A MONTH AND A HALF OUT, DEPENDING ON WHEN OUR OFFICE

[03:20:03]

OKAY. IN ADDITION TO THAT, THEY HAVE ASKED BASICALLY TO RESTORE THE KENNEL ATTENDANT THAT'S BEING RECLASSED, BUT THE ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICERS ARE THE ONES WHOSE SALARIES ARE LOW IN COMPARISON IN THE STUDY THAT HR DID. SO, I MEAN, IF WE ENTERTAIN KENNEL ATTENDANT, I THINK IT MAKES SENSE IN THE OTHER THINGS WE'VE GIVEN CONSENSUS ON, RIGHT? YES, AS FAR AS OTHER DEPARTMENTS. IF WE DO EVERYTHING ELSE AND DON'T HAVE A KENNEL ATTENDANT, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE A KENNEL ATTENDANT. THAT WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE. YOU'RE DOWN, ONE KENNEL ATTENDANT. RIGHT.

BUT THAT'S CURRENTLY BEING SUPPORTED OUT OF PART-TIME. IT IS. RIGHT. WHICH WILL PROBABLY GO OVER BUDGET, JUST BEING HONEST. WE HAVE THE VACANT ACO THAT WILL SHORE THAT UP THIS YEAR. OKAY. SO YOU COULD HAVE THE KENNEL ATTENDANT IF YOU DO THE 160? THIS IS WHAT I WOULD ENTERTAIN, JUST TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS. SUPPORT THE 160, SUPPORT THE KENNEL ATTENDANT, SEE HOW MUCH MONEY WE HAVE LEFT OVER IF WE PUT THAT TOWARDS THE REGRADE OF THAT STARTING SALARY. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE WITH THE COLA AND STUFF WE'VE ALREADY PUT OUT.

ALL DUE RESPECT, I DON'T GAMBLE BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THROWING MY MONEY AWAY.

I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT. SO THE THREE WHO HAVE NOT SCORED? THE KENNEL ATTENDANT, OF COURSE, ARE MR. PHILIP PUGH, MR. HAMILL, AND MR. FORD PUGH. I CAN ONLY SAY YES TO THAT LINE ITEM AFTER WE HAVE CONSENSUS ON THE 160. I CONCUR WITH MR. HAMILL. OKAY, WE'RE DEAD, LOCKED IN. BECAUSE I'M NOT MAKING ANY OTHER DECISIONS UNTIL I HAVE A CHANCE. NO, I CAN. I COULD PHONE THE KENNEL ATTENDANT AFTER WE GET DONE WITH THIS. BOUNCING AROUND ALL NIGHT WITH STUFF, PLAYING WITH NUMBERS, CHASING A PENNY. AND THIS IS WHAT I'LL SAY, TJ. WE'RE ALL GOING TO GO BACK AND RE-LOOK AT THIS. THIS ISN'T THE LAST TIME WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS THIS OR TALK ABOUT IT. BECAUSE AT 12 O'CLOCK TONIGHT... WE'RE NOT TRYING TO NEGOTIATE. MR. PUGH ASKED A QUESTION OF PUTTING IN THE KENNEL ATTENDANT, PUTTING IN THE $160,000 AND SEE WHERE WE'RE AT. YES, SIR. AND LEFTOVER FUNDS TO SEE IF THAT WOULD HELP WITH REGRADING THE ACOS PAY SCALE.

OKAY. WOULD IT EVEN BE WORTHWHILE? OKAY, SO FOR NOW, I AM GOING TO PUT YESES BESIDE MR. PHILLIP PUGH AND MR. HAMILL FOR THE KENNEL ATTENDANT, AND I'M GOING TO PUT A YES BESIDE YOU, MR. COX, FOR THE AMBULANCE MONEY. JUST JUST TO GET IT IN THERE AND TO CLARIFY THAT. YES, THAT'S GOING IN THE BUDGET, BUT WE'RE NOT USING THE AMBULANCE MONEY TO OFFSET. THAT WOULD BE CORRECT. JUST I DON'T WANT PEOPLE GO. YOU'RE SPENDING THIS REVENUE AND THIS ITEM WHEN IT SHOULD BE SPENT IN THIS. I OKAY, BECAUSE IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, IT WASN'T A LOT, IT WAS WHAT THREE GRAND, FOUR GRAND. IT WAS $42,000 AND IT NEEDED TO GET TO $56,000 OR $57,000 ON THE MONEY. BECAUSE IT'S BEEN TURNED DOWN LIKE 10 TIMES. PARDON, I'M NOT SURE I'M ON TRACK, SIR. ON THE ACO VACANT POSITION RIGHT NOW.

WHAT YOU NEEDED TO DO TO GET IT CORRECT. I THINK YOU HAD TO ADD LIKE $5,000 OR SOMETHING TO IT. BECAUSE WE HAD INTERVIEWED THREE OR FOUR GREAT CANDIDATES, BUT THERE WAS A MONEY ISSUE, POSSIBLY. I BELIEVE WE HAD A

[03:25:01]

CORRECT. OKAY, SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE. WE'RE PAYING OVERTIME WITH THAT VACANT POSITION WITH THE OTHER TWO. BUT THEN THAT DEPARTMENT WOULD BE SQUARED AWAY. THERE'S A.

HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

THERE'S A PIECE OF THE COUNTY CODE THAT WOULD ALLOW TO CLOSE A COUPLE THOUSAND DOLLAR GAP.

WHAT NOW? I SAID, THERE'S A PIECE OF THE COUNTY CODE THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO CLOSE A FEW THOUSAND DOLLAR GAP. RIGHT. ON AN OFF BASIS.

SO, ADDING THE 160 IN REVENUE IN. YEP. AND ADDING, THE KENNEL ATTENDANT. YEP.

GETS YOU 20,000 TO THE GOOD.

OKAY. THAT DOES NOT RECLASSIFY THE ACOS. SO I WILL GO UP AND ADD THAT IN. IS THAT WHAT I? YES, MA'AM. OKAY. OKAY. SO I WOULD ADD THAT TO. A THOUSAND DOLLARS. WELL, THEY STILL HAVE.

WELL, WE CAN BALANCE ON CONTINGENCY, A THOUSAND DOLLARS. SO IF THAT'S OKAY. OKAY. I STILL THINK WE'RE MAKING A MISTAKE DECREASING THE TAX RATE OF PENNY THIS YEAR. WE'RE JUST BUDGETING RIGHT NOW. I THINK EVERYBODY UP HERE WOULD LIKE TO DO IT. I THINK WE'RE GOING TO ADVERTISE AT 82 CENT, WAITING TO SEE IF ANYTHING GETS RAMMED DOWN OUR THROATS AT THE STATE. AND THEN WE HAVE THAT $430,000 AS A BUFFER IF IT DOES. AM I AN ASSUMPTION WHEN I SAY THAT, GENTLEMEN? NO, THAT'S THE WAY I THINK OF IT AS WELL. I'D LIKE TO HAVE THE PENNY, BUT IF THE STATE'S GOING TO DO WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO, WE NEED TO START BUILDING THE BUFFER RIGHT NOW.

BECAUSE IF THE STATE DOES IT, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A WHOLE LOT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. OTHER THAN TAKE OUT A GENERAL FUND, WHICH I DON'T LIKE TO DO, ON A REOCCURRING EXPENDITURE.

SO WE HAVE BALANCED WITHIN $1,580. ARE YOU OKAY IF WE REDUCE OUR CONTINGENCY BY $1,580? OR IF THAT'S WHAT GETS US THERE, OKAY, YES, OKAY, I THINK THAT'S A START. YES, MA'AM OKAY. SO THAT WILL BE WHAT IS INCLUDED IN THE INTRODUCED BUDGET.

CERTAINLY, THERE WILL BE ADDITIONAL WORK SESSIONS FOLLOWING THAT, AND THEN WE HAVE A WHOLE DISCUSSION ON UTILITIES AND SPECIAL REVENUE FUNDS. NEXT, DOES ANYONE NEED A BREAK? YEAH, LET'S TAKE A FIVE MINUTE RECESS. YES, SIR, I THINK I HAVE WHAT I NEED FOR THE GENERAL FUND AND WE ARE GOING TO MOVE INTO THE UTILITIES AND SPECIAL REVENUE FUNDS. I AM GOING TO MOVE THROUGH THIS PRETTY QUICKLY.

MS. PUDLOW DOES PLAN TO DO A LITTLE MORE DEEPER DIVE INTO THE UTILITIES SPREADSHEET.

THAT'S WHAT SHE THINKS. YEAH, YEAH, BUT JUST JUST TO LET THE BOARD KNOW. THE RATES, AS REQUESTED, ARE SHOWN HERE. AND YOU KNOW, THEY ARE BEING DRIVEN BY THE RATE INCREASE FOR SEWER SERVICES TO HOPEWELL. 40 PERCENT RATE INCREASE WAS, WHICH WAS APPROVED BY HOPEWELL CITY COUNCIL ALREADY, AND THEN A VIRGINIA AMERICAN WATER RATE INCREASE AS WELL. I KNOW THERE IS SOME OPPOSITION TO THAT PARTICULAR RATE INCREASE, BUT WE DO NOT KNOW WHERE THAT WILL LAND.

IN PART, THEIR RATE INCREASE IS ALSO BEING DRIVEN TO A SMALL DEGREE BY TWO NEW POSITIONS THAT THEY HAVE REQUESTED, WHICH IS A WATERWORKS MANAGER AND AN 811 LOCATOR. OF COURSE, THE HEALTH INSURANCE, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU, BY CONSENSUS, PASSED ON TO EMPLOYEES WILL BE A SMALL SAVINGS. AND THEN THE STEP AND COLA. THAT WAS APPROVED FOR NON-PUBLIC SAFETY WILL FOLD INTO THE 17 UTILITIES EMPLOYEES AS WELL. THOSE 17 EMPLOYEES AGAIN ARE PAID FOR BY WATER AND SEWER COLLECTIONS, ALONG WITH THE OPERATING COSTS.

TODAY, THERE IS ANOTHER BIG LEVER, OR LARGER LEVER, THAT YOU COULD PULL. WE ARE BUDGETING TODAY FOR DEBT SERVICE AND EXCESS OF THE PROJECTS. THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED FOR FY2027. WE ARE BUDGETING A DEBT PAYMENT OF $1.858 MILLION,

[03:30:04]

OR EXCESS BUDGETED IN DEBT PAYMENT. SO THAT IS A LEVER YOU COULD PULL TO REDUCE THAT UTILITIES RATE INCREASE.

AND THIS SLIDE HERE PROVIDES ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON WHAT THOSE CHOICES WOULD POTENTIALLY DO. IF YOU REMOVED THE EXTRA DEBT PAYMENT OF OVER $700,000, THE WATER RATE TIER 1 WOULD DROP FROM 10% TO 4%, AND THE SEWER WOULD DROP FROM 20% TO 10%. IF YOU WERE TO REMOVE THAT EXCESS DEBT PAYMENT AND THE 811 LOCATOR, THE WATER RATE WOULD BE A 2.5% INCREASE.

THE SEWER WOULD REMAIN AT 10%. AND IF YOU WERE TO REMOVE BOTH POSITIONS AND THAT EXCESS IN DEBT, THE WATER INCREASE WOULD BE A 2.5%, AND SEWER WOULD DROP TO 10%. SO THOSE ARE JUST THE MAJOR LEVERS. AND I BELIEVE MS. PUDLOW WAS GOING TO GO INTO MORE DETAIL ON THE UTILITIES FUND AND ON THE CHOICES. SO I THINK WE WOULD JUST NEED TO SWITCH THE ALL RIGHT.

WELL, I JUST GOT A QUICK QUESTION WHILE I'M SWITCHING OVER. WHAT KIND OF VEHICLES ARE WE BUYING? THOSE, I BELIEVE, THEY'RE BUDGETED AT $75,000. I BELIEVE THEY ARE EQUIPPED PICKUP TRUCKS.

FOR THE TWO NEW POSITIONS, IT WOULD PROBABLY JUST BE A REGULAR PICKUP TRUCK. THEY DON'T NEED THE UTILITY BODIES.

FOR THE TUBE. VEHICLES THAT WE'RE TRYING TO REPLACE THAT WOULD BE THE UTILITY BODY TRUCKS. ARE THEY FULL-SIZE TRUCKS? ARE THEY LIKE THE COLORADOS, THE MID-SIZE PICKUPS? THE TWO UTILITY BODIES WOULD BE AN F-250 AND AN F-350 SIZE. THE OTHERS, RIGHT NOW, OUR STRAIGHT PICKUPS, ARE F-150S. WE COULD LOOK AT GOING DOWN TO SOMETHING SMALLER. MOST OF THE LOCATORS AND ALL I SEE RUNNING AROUND ARE LIKE THE SMALL, OR THE MID-SIZE PICKUP, NOT SMALL PICKUPS. SO THERE'S A QUESTION ON THAT. SO THAT COULD BE A LITTLE BIT OF COST SAVINGS. YES. THANK YOU, MA'AM. MS. PUDLOW IS GOING TO ADD A FEW MORE COMMENTS.

ALL RIGHT, GOOD EVENING. SO JUST TO GO INTO A COUPLE OF THINGS, THIS IS BASED ON QUESTIONS I'VE RECEIVED FROM CITIZENS. SO I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR BEFORE WE GO THROUGH THE WATER SEWER FUND.

THIS IS AN ENTERPRISE FUND, WHICH MEANS THAT THE ACCOUNTS ARE BASED ON FEES CHARGED FOR BY TWO EXTERNAL USERS FOR GOODS AND SERVICES. SO, THIS WASTEWATER OR UTILITIES FUND IS AN ENTERPRISE FUND, MEANING IT'S FULLY FUNDED THROUGH USER FEES. SO IT DOESN'T COME FROM GENERAL FUND, IT'S NOT FUNDED. THAT'S AT LEAST THE GOAL, I WOULD ASSUME IS THAT WE DON'T SUPPLEMENT THE UTILITIES WITH GENERAL FUND, AND WE WANT TO FUND IT FULLY WITH REVENUES. ANOTHER THING WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, CAPITAL PROJECT FUNDS. SO THIS IS SOME LINE ITEMS IN IN THE BUDGET. THOSE ARE FUNDS TO USE TO ACCOUNT FOR AND REPORT FINANCIAL RESOURCES THAT ARE RESTRICTED, COMMITTED OR ASSIGNED TO EXPENDITURES.

FOR CAPITAL OUTLAYS. CAPITAL OUTLAYS ARE USED FOR ACQUIRING, UPGRADING, OR MAINTAINING PHYSICAL ASSETS LIKE PROPERTY, BUILDINGS AND EQUIPMENT. AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, THIS DEPARTMENT HAS QUITE A FEW CAPITAL ASSETS THAT NEED A LOT OF MAINTENANCE. SO I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT BEFORE I GO INTO SOME OF THE LINE ITEMS. YOU CAN FIND INFORMATION ABOUT THE UTILITIES, PRINCE GEORGE COUNTY WATER AUTHORITY IN SECTION 82 OF OUR CODE IF THERE'S QUESTIONS THERE. AND THEN, JUST FOR REFERENCE, THIS WAS FROM THE LAST YEAR'S BUDGET DOCUMENT. THERE'S ABOUT 4,675 CUSTOMERS CURRENTLY. 4,253 OF THOSE ARE RESIDENTIAL AND 422 APPROXIMATELY ARE COMMERCIAL. AND THEN THERE'S 02,904 CUSTOMERS APPROXIMATELY THAT RECEIVE BOTH WATER AND SEWER SERVICES. AND THEN 462 ARE WATER-ONLY CUSTOMERS AND ABOUT 1,300 ARE SEWER-ONLY CUSTOMERS. SO, AGAIN, ALL OF THIS INFORMATION IS IN THE FY26 BUDGET. AND THEN WE

[03:35:03]

BUT THESE DON'T HAVE TO GO OUT TO BOND, SO YOU CAN GET THAT DIFFERENTLY OFF OF REVENUE FUNDS. AND IT DOESN'T GO AGAINST THE 10% MINIMUM BASED ON THE ASSESSED VALUE. SO, AND THEN ANOTHER THING IN HERE, I TALK ABOUT HOPEWELL. SO THE OPERATIONS FUND LINE ITEMS IN THIS BUDGET ARE BROKEN OUT BY DIFFERENT SYSTEMS. SO THE DEPARTMENT KEEPS TRACK OF THE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS AND HOW MUCH FUNDING IS USED TO MAINTAIN EACH OF THOSE SYSTEMS. SO YOU'LL HEAR, YOU KNOW, CEDARS-WOOD, THE CENTRAL SYSTEM, HOPEWELL, SEWER, PETERSBURG, SO ALL THESE THINGS ARE MAINTAINED ON SEPARATE ITEMS. OKAY, THANK YOU FOR PUTTING LETTING ME DO THAT REALLY QUICK. IT JUST MAKES THE NEXT SPREADSHEET A LOT EASIER. AND I PROMISE I WILL DO THIS. I'LL GO THROUGH THIS AS FAST AS I CAN.

SO, FOR REVENUES FOR THE UTILITIES FUND, THESE REVENUES HERE ARE BASED ON THE PROPOSED REVENUE ITEMS FOR WATER AND SEWER. SO I'M NOT GOING TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON TIME ON THEM.

BUT YOU CAN SEE. IF THE BOARD APPROVED THEM AS PROPOSED, IT WOULD BE AN INCREASE FOR BOTH OF THOSE ITEMS. PENALTIES AGAIN, A REDUCTION IN 25 BY $25,000 BASED ON THE ADOPTED SO REQUESTED IS 145,000. THAT'S BASED ON TRENDS. RECONNECTION FEES ALSO GOING DOWN 12,000 BASED ON TRENDS. YOU CAN SEE THE REQUESTED AMOUNT AND ADOPTED LAST YEAR. THEIR INSPECTION SERVICES THIS IS DEVELOPMENT RELATED INSPECTION COSTS OF $5,000 REVENUE, WORKING THROUGH DETAILS ON THAT ONE REPLACEMENT RESERVE FUND TRANSFERS FROM UTILITY OPERATING FUNDS, SO THAT'S $150,000, AN INCREASE OF EXACTLY $150,000. WATER CONNECTION CHARGES, THIS IS BASED ON TRENDS, SO IT'S NOT BASED ON RATES.

THAT'S $97,000, SO AN INCREASE OF THAT. FROM LAST YEAR, SEWER CONNECTION CHARGES, $140,000, AGAIN, BASED ON TRENDS, NOT RATE INCREASES. UTILITY CAPITAL FUNDS TRANSFERS FROM TOURISM, SO TOURISM. PUTS FUNDING INTO THIS DEPARTMENT FOR THE ROUTE 301 WELL IMPROVEMENTS. SO THERE'S NO CHANGE HERE. CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT FUNDS TRANSFER FROM UTILITY OPERATING LESS PAYMENT MADE TO HOPEWELL. SO, THIS IS A REDUCTION BY $526,212. CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT FUND OPERATING UTILITIES OPERATING SO WATER CAPACITY. THIS IS TRANSFERS FROM THE 600 REVENUE ITEM DOWN HERE FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS. AND THEN THE SAME THING FOR SEWER. SO THE TOTAL DIFFERENCE IN THE BUDGET, AS PROPOSED, IS 1 POINT, OR 1 MILLION, TWO HUNDRED AND EIGHTY THOUSAND AND SEVENTY TWO DOLLARS. AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH THERE SO YOU CAN SEE.

LAST YEAR'S WAS ELEVEN MILLION SEVEN HUNDRED SIXTY EIGHT THOUSAND AND THIRTY THREE DOLLARS, AND THIS YEAR'S PROPOSED BUDGET WAS THIRTEEN MILLION FOUR HUNDRED EIGHTY THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED FIVE DOLLARS. SO EXPENDITURES, PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, THERE WAS AN INCREASE HERE OF $13,000. THIS WAS BASED ON WATER MODELING, RATE MODELING, AND LEGAL SERVICES.

ACCOUNT AUDITING SERVICES, THE COUNTY BILLS, THE UTILITY OR ENTERPRISE FUND FOR PAYROLL BILLS, AND THEN ALSO THEY PAY A PORTION OF THE COUNTY AUDIT.

CONTRACT FEES, THIS IS AN INCREASE OF $30,000, AND THAT'S FOR ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS, CONTRACTED SERVICES, COPIERS, EMERGENCY REPAIRS. LANDSCAPING THERE IS WHEN WE RIP UP SOMEONE'S YARD, WE HAVE TO OBVIOUSLY REPAIR THAT, AND THEN TYLER TECH. DUMPSTER SERVICES, THIS IS BASED ON TRENDS, SO A REDUCTION IN $300. AUTOMOTIVE, AM I GOING TOO FAST? NO? OKAY. AUTOMOTIVE POOL, MOTOR POOL, VEHICLE REPAIRS, THIS IS INCREASED BASED ON THE PRIOR YEAR SPENDING, $10,000. SO THIS YEAR IS REQUESTED AT $30,000.

ELECTRICAL, AGAIN, WE'RE SEEING INCREASES ACROSS THE BOARD. THEY HAVE ASKED FOR $4,000 MORE BASED ON THOSE TRENDS, FOR $12,000 THIS YEAR. POSTAL SERVICES AGAIN BASED ON TRENDS, $2,500 INCREASE. HOLD ON, CAN YOU GO BACK UP REAL QUICK? ON THE AUTOMOTIVE POOL, THAT WAS ON A TRANSMISSION THAT WAS OUT OF, LIKE, WASN'T A LOT OF THAT FUNDS TO A TRANSMISSION? THEY HAD JUST REPLACED, OR DID THEY NOT REPLACE IT? THAT WASN'T OUT OF THIS ONE, SIR, NO. OKAY, ALL RIGHT.

SAFETY TRAINING. SO THIS IS A NEW ITEM. SORRY, TELEPHONE AGAIN. BASED ON INCREASES, SO $5,000 INCREASE, $30,500 THIS YEAR. SAFETY TRAINING IS A NEW ITEM, $4,000. AGAIN, WE TRY TO, WE'RE INCREASING FOCUS ON SAFETY. IF YOU HAVE

[03:40:01]

UNIFORMS AND APPAREL, THERE WAS AN INCREASE OF $1,000, BRINGING IT TO $12,000 THIS YEAR. WATER TREATMENT CHEMICALS FOR CHEMICALS FOR WATER TREATMENT IN 301 WELLS, $2,000 INCREASE.

AGAIN. WE'VE GOT NEW INFRASTRUCTURE COMING ONLINE THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE INCREASE THEIR OPERATING SUPPLIES, CONSUMABLE MATERIALS AND PARTS FOR PUMP SECTIONS AND WELL FACILITIES. THAT WAS AN INCREASE OF $20,000.

EQUIPMENT, PARTS AND SUPPLIES, CONSUMABLES, MATERIALS FOR PARTS AND USED FOR OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE.

THAT WAS AN INCREASE OF $17,000. BUILDING SUPPLIES WAS A REDUCTION OF $500, BRINGING THAT LINE ITEM TO $500. MR. CHAIR, MAY I ASK A QUESTION? YES, SIR. MS. PUDLOW, THESE DOLLAR AMOUNTS, ARE THESE BECAUSE OF INCREASE OF THE QUANTITY OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, OR GENERAL INCREASES IN PRICES? SO IT'S BOTH, SIR.

SOME OF THE THINGS ARE INCREASING IN PRICES, SO WE'RE SEEING THAT ACROSS THE BOARD. BUT ALSO, WE HAVE RIVER ROAD TANK AND BOOSTER STATION. WE HAVE THE 301 WELL, AND WE HAVE OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE COMING ONLINE, SO WE'RE HAVING TO PURCHASE MORE. SO THAT'S THE INCREASE. THERE IS CALCULATING WHAT THE NEW INFRASTRUCTURE IS GOING TO REQUIRE THE DEPARTMENT FOR MAINTENANCE. FOR THE THINGS WHERE YOU'RE CALCULATING INCREASE IN THE COST OF THE PRODUCTS, WHAT SORT OF MEASURE ARE YOU USING TO DO THOSE INCREASES WITH? ARE YOU USING SOMETHING LIKE THE PRODUCER PRICE INDEX OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I'M NOT SURE, SIR. IF THERE'S A SPECIFIC LINE ITEM YOU'D LIKE US TO GO, FIND MORE INFORMATION ON.

TYPICALLY, IT WOULD BE ANYTHING THAT'S THE INPUT COSTS TO THE MAINTENANCE OR CONSTRUCTION OF MATERIALS. IF WE'RE INCREASING LINE ITEMS DUE TO WHAT OUR PERCEIVED INCREASE OF THE COST OF THOSE MATERIALS WOULD BE, I'D LIKE TO UNDERSTAND, LIKE, HOW DID WE DO THE MATH TO COME TO THOSE NUMBERS? SOMETHING LIKE PPI, I THINK, WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE FAIRLY COMPARABLE FOR US TO DO THAT CALCULATION ON.

SO, NOT HAVING SEEN PRIOR YEARS SIDE BY SIDE WITH THIS, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING I'D BE INTERESTED IN SEEING. OKAY.

THANK YOU, SIR. DID I ALREADY GO OVER BILLING SUPPLIES? THIS IS FOR BILLING FORMS, THEIR SPECIALTY PAPER AND PRINTERS THEY NEED. THAT'S AN INCREASE OF $1,500. I DID NOT GO OVER PERMIT AND LICENSE RENEWALS, VDH, VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, WATER WORKS, OPERATOR ANNUAL FEES, SO AN INCREASE OF $5,000. SORRY, DECREASE.

DID I DO THAT MORE THAN ONCE? SAY, DECREASE WHEN IT WAS INCREASE. ANYWAY. TRANSFER TO CAPITAL RESERVES. THIS IS A MAKEUP FOR FUNDS FOR CAPITAL PROJECTS. THAT WAS A DECREASE OF $526,000 AND $212, EXCUSE ME. TRANSFER REPLACEMENT RESERVE FUNDS.

THIS IS FOR SADDLE REPLACEMENT, SO IT IS AN INCREASE OF $150,000 FROM LAST YEAR'S ADOPTED BUDGET. THAT'S SO WE CAN PROACTIVELY REPLACE SADDLES INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR THERE TO BE SADDLE BREAKS, AS THAT INCREASES EMERGENCY REPAIR COSTS. SIR, I JUST WANT TO, SO WE'RE GOING TO SPEND ANOTHER $150,000.

TO REPLACE, IS THAT THE ROCK AND GRAVEL AND THE SADDLES THEMSELVES? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I WOULD ASSUME IT COVERS THOSE COSTS, SIR, BUT I'M GOING TO LET... YES, THAT WOULD BE THE COST OF MATERIALS. AND THE $150,000 IS ONLY FOR THAT PROJECT, OR IS THE TOTAL $845,000 FOR THAT PROJECT? THE $150,000 INCREASE IS... THE COST OF US PROACTIVELY GOING OUT AND REPLACING THOSE SADDLES, US BUYING THE MATERIALS AND DOING THE WORK. SO THE $150,000 IS ONLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE SADDLE BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING READY TO, IN OUR NEXT MEETING, EXPEND MONEY ON PURCHASING EQUIPMENT TO DO THE SADDLES. CORRECT. SO I JUST WANT THE OVERALL NUMBER THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE SPENDING TO GO AFTER.

THIS VERSUS A CONTRACTOR IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT.

CORRECT. YES, SIR. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO I GOT $150,000. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. AND THERE'S PLENTY OF TRENDS. I KNOW THE BOARD HAS THIS INFORMATION, BUT WHEN WE HAVE A COLD, WE HAVE COLD WEATHER AND THEN IT WARMS BACK UP, YOU CAN SEE PROBABLY FOUR OR FIVE BREAKS, MINIMUM. SO WE KNOW ALL OF THESE SADDLES NEED TO BE REPLACED, UNFORTUNATELY. WATER CAPITAL SURCHARGE, A PORTION OF MINIMUM MONTHLY CHARGES ON BILLS GO TO CAPITAL. SO THESE ARE THE, THERE'S MINIMUM MONTHLY CHARGES ON WATER AND THEN ALSO SEWERS.

SO THIS IS WHAT IS DESIGNATED TO CAPITAL PROJECTS. UTILITIES OVERALL BASELINE CHANGE. THIS IS A BASELINE ADJUSTMENT, A REDUCTION OF $5,759.

UTILITIES PAYROLL REDUCTION

[03:45:02]

AGAIN, THIS IS BASED ON THE DISCUSSION WITH THE BOARD THIS EVENING.

SO THAT LINE ITEM WOULD CHANGE BASED ON THOSE. SAME THINGS FOR THESE, SO I WON'T GO OVER THEM, BUT THOSE ARE THE... INCLUDING ALL OF THOSE CALCULATIONS DEPENDING ON THE BOARD SELECTIONS.

OPERATING HOPEWELL, SO THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GETTING INTO THE OPERATING AND YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS THAT ON HERE. SO, OPERATING HOPEWELL ELECTRICAL INCREASE BASED ON PRIOR YEAR, TRENDS BY $4,000 FOR 26,000.

HOPEWELL SUPPLY DECREASED REDUCTION BASED ON PRIOR YEAR'S TRENDS. THAT'S $4,000. HOPEWELL EQUIPMENT AND PARTS SUPPLIES DECREASED BASED ON REDUCTION FROM TRENDS.

THAT'S $8,000. HOPEWELL SEWER SERVICE INCREASES BASED ON SHORTFALLS FROM METER READS AND PLUS A 40% INCREASE. I WANT TO CORRECT MYSELF. THIS ACTUALLY WAS JANUARY 13, 2026.

SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THE INCORRECT DATE THERE.

BUT THAT WAS AN INCREASE OF $1,160,000 BASED ON FY26 ADOPTED BUDGET. SO, A TOTAL OF $2.1 MILLION FOR THIS YEAR IS REQUESTED AS REQUIRED.

OPERATING SEWER WASTEWATER FOR PETERSBURG, NET REDUCTION ACROSS MULTIPLE CODES HERE OF $28,000 FOR A TOTAL OF $593,500 BEING REQUESTED. THE CENTRAL WATER SYSTEM, THIS IS ACTUALLY VIRGINIA AMERICAN, SO I'M JUST GOING TO CHANGE THAT NOW. THEY ARE PROPOSING THE 27% RATE INCREASE, SO THAT WOULD BE $290,000 INCREASE, OR $1.19 MILLION, FOR THIS NEXT YEAR.

CENTRAL WATER SYSTEM, ELECTRICAL SERVICES. THIS IS A $47,000 INCREASE. THIS IS SPECIFIC BECAUSE OF THE PUMPS BEING ADDED TO RIVER ROAD. THOSE ARE LARGE PUMP STATIONS AND OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVE A HEFTY ELECTRICAL CONSIDERATION.WATER'S EDGE, WATER, RIVER'S EDGE SYSTEM, A NET REDUCTION OF $15,700 FOR A TOTAL OF $25,000 BEING REQUESTED. AGAIN, WATER'S RIVER EDGE SYSTEM, A NET REDUCTION OF $26,000 FOR A TOTAL OF... ALRIGHT, QUICK QUESTION. WHAT ARE WE REDUCING AT RIVER'S EDGE? CONTRACTED FEES, BUILDING SUPPLIES. DO YOU KNOW THE REDUCTION? A LOT OF THE REDUCTIONS ON THE WATER SYSTEMS ARE BECAUSE WE GOT ALL OF OUR TANK MAINTENANCE DONE IN THE LAST FISCAL YEAR, SO WE DON'T NEED TO BUDGET FOR THAT COST AGAIN THIS YEAR.

OKAY, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE, BECAUSE I KNOW WE'VE HAD SOME COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE SYSTEM IN RIVERS EDGE, SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE WEREN'T TAKEN AWAY FROM THE MAINTENANCE SIDE. WE ALSO HAD A WELL FACILITY OUT THERE AT RIVERS EDGE THAT WE HAD A TANK. HAD SOME ISSUES WITH THE TANK AND WITH SOME OF THE SCADA OUT THERE. WE'VE ALREADY ADDRESSED THOSE ISSUES, SO WE WON'T NEED TO REPEAT THOSE COSTS THIS YEAR. OKAY.

THANK YOU, MA'AM. WHILE YOU'RE UP, MR. CHAIR, DID THE PRESSURE ISSUES GET ADDRESSED AS WELL OUT THERE? I KNOW WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THAT WITH FRANK. I KNOW THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION OF MAYBE LOOKING INTO FIXING THOSE ISSUES.

AT RIVER'S EDGE? I BELIEVE THOSE RIVERS. YEAH, HE WAS. IT WAS THE TANK AT, I BELIEVE, THE LIVERMAN. WELL. SO WE'VE HAD THAT TANK ADDRESSED.

OKAY. AND THEN WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT WELL BACK INTO SERVICE NOW, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO SERVE IT ALL OFF OF THE BICKERS. WELL. OKAY. SO IT'LL FIX THE PRESSURE ISSUE.

OKAY. AND THEN ALSO AS PART OF THE GRANT THAT THE CONGRESSWOMAN HAS.

CONGRESSWOMAN'S OFFICE HAS JUST SAID THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS SIGNED IN, WILL ALLOW US TO DESIGN AN EXTENSION FROM BEACHWOOD DOWN TO RIVERS EDGE TO ACTUALLY GET THEM ALL UNDER THE CENTRAL SYSTEM, WHICH WILL BOOST THE PRESSURE AND THE AVAILABLE FLOW FOR FIRE PROTECTION BY HAVING ARWA WATER GO OVER THERE. WE CAN DECOMMISSION THOSE OLD WELLS. YES AND NO. WHAT ARE YOU NOT GOOD WITH? EXTENDING THE WATER LINE. WE'RE GOING TO GET CHARGED AN INCREASE.

WELL, I MEAN, BUT... YEAH, MIGHT BE CHEAPER TO MAINTAIN A WELL.

BUT THAT'S ALL I GOT RIGHT NOW.

THANK YOU. SIR, AND I CAN JUST BE HONEST. THE ARWA RATES DO NOT INCREASE UNLESS WE USE MORE

[03:50:01]

IT'S PRETTY AFFORDABLE. SO WE'RE SENDING ARWA ALL THE WAY TO RIVER'S EDGE, OR WE WOULD SEND ARWA ALL THE WAY TO RIVER'S EDGE, AND NOT? RIGHT, YEAH. RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE ARWA WATER THAT GOES ALL THE WAY TO BEACHWOOD AND CHAPEL CREEK. AND THAT'S WHERE WE STOP RIGHT NOW. AND THEN. IF WE CAN EXTEND THAT LINE DOWN TO RIVER'S EDGE, IT WOULD GIVE A BETTER WATER SUPPLY, BETTER PRESSURE, AND ADEQUATE FIRE PROTECTION IN RIVER'S EDGE. ALL THE LANDS WOULD HAVE TO BE UPSIZED, CORRECT? NOT ALL OF THEM. I THINK A GOOD PORTION OF THEM ARE ALREADY 8-INCH, BUT THERE ARE SOME THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO UPSIZE, YEAH. I'M SORRY, SIR, BECAUSE IT'S RELATIVE TO THE QUESTION. YOU CAN SEE HERE THE UTILITIES, AND I'M SORRY TO SPEAK OUT OF TURN, RACHEL, BUT UTILITIES HAVE BEEN WORKING TO GET SOME OF THESE SMALLER WATER SYSTEMS OFFLINE. BECAUSE, AGAIN, IT DOES SAVE IN MAINTENANCE COSTS. SO AS THEY'VE REDUCED THE NUMBER, BECAUSE THOSE PUMPS ARE VERY EXPENSIVE, ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT GO ALONG WITH THEM, YEAH, TESTING AND ALL THE OTHER OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE. SO GETTING SOME OF THOSE SYSTEMS OFFLINE HELPS REDUCE THAT. I'LL SAY THAT ALSO INCLUDES JORDAN ON THE JAMES AND EAGLES COVE. YES, SIR. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY OUR OPERATING FEE FOR VDH HAS DROPPED, BECAUSE WE'VE TAKEN THREE WELL SYSTEMS OFFLINE. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO, WATER FOR PRINCE GEORGE WOOD SYSTEM, THERE WAS A NET INCREASE OF $700 HERE, FOR A TOTAL OF $4,400. YOU CAN SEE THAT.

REASONS THERE FOR ELECTRICAL VARIOUS OBJECT CODES, THE WATER ROUTE THREE, ROUTE 301 SYSTEM. AS A NET INCREASE OF FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR A TOTAL OF SEVENTEEN THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED UTILITIES SEWER SERVICES CAPITAL, IT WAS A DECREASE OF 170,000 FOR A TOTAL OF 140,000 REQUESTED THIS YEAR. SAME THING, EXCUSE ME, NOT SAME THING. UTILITIES CAPITAL FOR WATER SERVICES.

THIS IS TO REPLACE AGING SERVICING.

SADDLES, THAT'S 100,000. DID I ALREADY SAY? SOMETHING ELSE? WAS THE SADDLE 150? THAT WAS THE VEHICLES. WASN'T IT OKAY? I APOLOGIZE, GENTLEMEN, I MISSPOKE THIS IS THE SADDLES AND THE $150,000 WERE THE VEHICLES. FOR THE TWO NEW...

YEAH. OKAY. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I APOLOGIZE. UTILITIES CAPITAL WATER METERS IS A REDUCTION OF $5,000 FOR A TOTAL REQUESTED OF $90,000. UTILITIES CAPITAL, OTHER EQUIPMENT IS A REDUCTION OF $20,000 FOR A TOTAL OF $15,000 BEING REQUESTED.

UTILITIES CAPITAL PROFESSIONAL SERVICES. THIS IS FOR PLATS, TITLE SEARCHES, ENGINEERING SERVICES. THIS IS BASED ON... TRENDS AN INCREASE OF $10,000 UTILITIES CAPITAL, DATA PROCESSING SUPPLIES. THIS IS FOR NEW NEW FACILITIES, COMPUTERS, EQUIPMENT. $5,000 INCREASE FOR A TOTAL OF $10,000 BEING REQUESTED.

UTILITIES CAPITAL RESERVES.

FOR INFLOW, INFILTRATION, SEWER AND MANHOLE REPAIRS, THIS WOULD BE $85,000. AND THIS WOULD BE ABLE TO PUSH CCC, CCTV CAMERAS THROUGH PIPES AND TRY TO FIND OUT WHERE WE HAVE INFILTRATION.

AND WE'RE BASICALLY PAYING FOR WATER TO BE PROCESSED, THAT IS NOT SEWER WATER. IT'S GETTING INTO THE PIPES FROM OUTSIDE. SO THIS WOULD BE TO HELP FIND WHERE WE'RE PAYING FOR IT AT A HIGH RATE, ESPECIALLY WITH SEWER. THAT'S MUCH HIGHER. WASTEWATER COSTS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN WATER, SO INFILTRATION IS A BIG DEAL.

SO IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD, LET ME KNOW. MS. PUDLOW, IS THIS THE MR. CHAIR? I HOPE SO. I DON'T SPEAK OUT.

MS. PUEBLO, IS THIS TO PAY FOR A THIRD PARTY TO DO THE SCANS, OR IS THIS US HAVING THE EQUIPMENT TO DO IT? RIGHT. THANK YOU. SO FOR A CONTRACTOR, JUST FOR THE RECORDING. UTILITIES, CAPITAL RESERVES, THIS IS FOR, I SEE THE TWO MOTOR VEHICLES IN HERE. IT WAS IN HERE EARLIER. OKAY. IT WAS ON THE OTHER SLIDE. THANK YOU.

I APOLOGIZE. WAS THAT NOT SOMETHING WE WERE ALREADY BUDGETING FOR? THAT'S WHAT I WAS JUST LOOKING AT. I THOUGHT WE WERE ALREADY BUDGETING FOR CAMERAS FOR CONTRACTORS ON THAT. ARE WE NOT? THAT WAS IN THE ORIGINAL REQUEST THAT UTILITIES HAD BROUGHT BEFORE THE BOARD, BUT IT WAS NOT APPROVED, SIR.

SO THEN, IN THE AMENDED REQUEST, THESE ARE NOT INCLUDED.

[03:55:01]

BUDGETED. AM I WRONG? I GUESS I'M WRONG. SO WE, THIS 85,000 IS ONE OF THE NEW PROGRAMS THAT WE SPECIFICALLY WANT TO TARGET. AREAS WHERE WE KNOW WE HAVE ISSUES SO THAT WE CAN GO IN AND DO THE CCTV AND MANHOLE INSPECTION SO THAT WE CAN GET THOSE AREAS REPAIRED.

SO THIS IS SPECIFICALLY A NEW PROGRAM TO PROACTIVELY TRY TO REMOVE THE INFILTRATION AND INFLOW FROM THE SEWER SYSTEM. I GUESS THE CONFUSION I HAVE IS, DO WE ALREADY HAVE A CONTRACTOR THAT DOES THIS FOR US? WE'RE JUST ADDING MORE WORK TO IT? WE HAVE A CONTRACTOR THAT COMES OUT WHEN WE NEED THEM, WHEN WE, LIKE, AN EMERGENCY SITUATION.

OKAY, ALL RIGHT, AND THAT'S WHAT WAS ALREADY BEING EXPENDED? YES. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.

UTILITIES CAPITAL RESERVES FOR MOTOR VEHICLE, THIS IS A DECREASE OF $5,000 BECAUSE THE $150,000 FOR NEW POSITIONS WAS... TAKEN OUT AND PUT UP HERE AS A BOARD CHOICE. I APOLOGIZE FOR THE CONFUSION THIS EVENING.

UTILITIES CAPITAL DEBT SERIES 2020. THIS IS REFINANCE DEBT FROM A SEWER REHAB PROJECT FROM 2015. THE PAYMENT HAS INCREASED $3,000 FOR A TOTAL OF $93,000, AND PRINCIPAL WENT UP AND INTEREST WENT DOWN. SO YOU CAN SEE THEY'RE ALMOST BALANCING THERE. AND AGAIN, SAME THING FOR INTEREST.

REDUCTION BY $2,999, $2,990.

ARWA, WHICH IS AGAIN THE APPOMATTOX RIVER WATER AUTHORITY 2016 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT DEBT SERVICE PAYMENT IS INCREASING BY $700 FOR A TOTAL OF $93,543.

UTILITIES CAPITAL, AMI METER, READ CAPITAL, LEASE, PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST. HERE. YOU CAN SEE INTEREST WENT DOWN, SO PRINCIPAL WENT UP. THAT PAYMENT IS NOW $133,796, AND THEN THE INTEREST PAYMENT IS $51,350. UTILITIES CAPITAL FOR ROUTE 301, WELL, PRINCIPAL PAYMENT IS ESTIMATED. THIS HASN'T BEEN BORROWED YET AT 75,000, SO THAT'S AN INCREASE OF $88, AND THEN THE INCREASE HAS NO CHANGE FOR $60,000. WE ARE GOING TO DISCUSS THIS WITH THE BOARD, BUT UTILITIES CAPITAL, VARIOUS PROJECTS WE HAVE ALREADY HAD BOARD APPROVAL FOR THE RIVER ROAD TRANSMISSION MAIN. THERE WAS A PORTION OF THIS THAT WAS NOT FUNDED OUT OF DEBT. AND SO THAT IS HOW WE HAVE BEEN PAYING FOR. THAT PROJECT IS OUT OF THE EXISTING FUNDS FOR UTILITIES. SO THE REST OF THE PROJECT NEEDS TO BE FUNDED OUT OF DEBT FOR $11 MILLION. AM I CORRECT IN THAT? WE ACTUALLY, THE PROJECT WAS APPROVED TO BE PAID FOR WITH A DEBT ISSUANCE. AND WE PUT A REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION IN PLACE MONTHS AND MONTHS AGO.

INDICATING THAT WE HAD THE INTENTION OF REIMBURSING OURSELVES WITH DEBT PROCEEDS WHEN BORROWING, WHEN THE BORROWING WAS COMPLETE. UTILITIES CAPITAL ENGINEERING SERVICES FUNDING FROM 620 FOR CAPITAL PROJECTS. THAT'S $20,000 INCREASE. THERE WAS NOTHING IN THERE LAST YEAR.

UTILITIES CAPITAL THERE'S A $200,000 DECREASE. FOR A TOTAL OF $100,000. THIS IS BECAUSE WE COMPLETED WORK ON TWO PUMP STATION REPAIRS AND REHABS THIS LAST YEAR. UTILITIES CAPITAL, WATER FACILITY IMPROVEMENTS, WATER LINE REPLACEMENTS, AND VALVE REHABS. SO THAT IS A DECREASE OF $100,000 FOR A TOTAL OF $50,000 BEING REQUESTED FOR THIS YEAR. SO, THE TOTAL OF EXPENDITURES IS $1,280,072. SO, DEBT PAYMENT CONSIDERATIONS. COMMITTED TO WE ARE COMMITTED TO FOR BORROWING FOR THE RIVER ROAD TRANSMISSION MAIN FOR 11.

EXCUSE ME, 10 MILLION NINE HUNDRED THIRTY SEVEN THOUSAND, EIGHT HUNDRED AND THIRTY FIVE DOLLARS. THE ESTIMATE FOR ISSUING THAT DEBT. THE COST SEVENTY FIVE THOUSAND FOR A TOTAL BORROWING OF ELEVEN MILLION TWELVE THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED THIRTY FIVE DOLLARS.

WE ARE ASKING FOR, EXCUSE ME. A PUBLIC HEARING FOR APPROPRIATION WAS HELD NOVEMBER 26 OF 2024, AND THE RESOLUTION WAS APPROVED A REIMBURSEMENT RESOLUTION BY MR. RUI WAS APPROVED ON NOVEMBER 13TH. SO, ANNUAL DEBT PAYMENTS FOR PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST FOR $11 MILLION IS GOING TO BE $1.7 MILLION FOR EIGHT YEARS AND $4,716,000 FOR 30 YEARS. OKAY, SO PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST. WHERE IS THE? WE MUST HAVE THIS

[04:00:03]

TO PASS THAT ALONG TO EMPLOYEES. WE DON'T NEED TO DISCUSS THE STEP INCREASE.

WE'LL MAINTAIN WHAT SAME THING FOR THE COLA, MAINTAIN WHAT THE BOARD HAS DECIDED THIS EVENING.

TWO POSITIONS ARE BEING REQUESTED FROM THE UTILITIES DEPARTMENT. ONE IS FOR A MANAGER FOR WATER WORKS OPERATOR AT $115,738 AND A UTILITIES LOCATOR FOR $79,060. THE TOTAL HERE WOULD BE $194,000 $798, EXCUSE ME, $194,798. SO THAT WOULD BE FOR BOARD CONSIDERATION HERE IF THOSE TWO POSITIONS SHOULD BE FUNDED OUT OF THE ENTERPRISE FUND.

AGAIN, THESE POSITIONS ARE NOT PAID FOR FROM GENERAL FUND, BUT THROUGH THE ENTERPRISE FUND. IF THOSE TWO POSITIONS ARE FUNDED BY THE BOARD, THEY WOULD NEED VEHICLES AT $75,000 FOR A TOTAL OF $150,000. SO SOME OF THE BIG LEVERS THAT MR. RUI HAD MENTIONED EARLIER, WOULD BE REMOVING THE EXCESS DEBT.

THERE ARE PROJECTS THAT WERE NOT READY TO BE BROUGHT BEFORE THE BOARD FOR DEBT CONSIDERATION. ONE OF THOSE WOULD BE $6 MILLION FOR A DESIGN FOR A WATER TREATMENT PLANT.

OR THE BEACHWOOD MANOR, WHICH, AGAIN, IS NOT READY TO BE FUNDED FOR DEBT AT THIS TIME. THAT OPENS UP THIS FOR BOARD CONSIDERATION TO REMOVE IT. THE IMPACT, IF THE BOARD DECIDED TO AGREE TO REMOVE THAT EXCESS OFF, WOULD BE AN IMPACT OF THE RATES. GOING FROM 10, 20, 20, AND 20, DOWN TO 4, 5, 05, AND 10, AND WITH THE MINIMUM CHARGE, AGAIN, GOING FROM 10% DOWN TO 1. SO THAT WOULD BE THE IMPACT IF THE BOARD DECIDED NOT TO CONTINUE TO BUDGET FOR THAT. DEBT AMOUNT THAT ISN'T GOING TO BE READY TO BE PULLED FOR DEBT YET IF THE IF. THE BOARD CHOSE TO NOT PULL, TO NOT CONTINUE TO FUND FOR THAT DEBT AND ALSO NOT FUND ONE OF THE POSITIONS FOR THE 811 LOCATOR, THE RATES WOULD BE THIS, AND IF THE BOARD DECIDED NOT TO FUND ANY OF THOSE POSITION, THE RATE INCREASE WOULD LOOK LIKE THAT. THOSE ARE THE PRIMARY DECISIONS FOR THE FUND, I WOULD LIKE TO OPEN IT FOR DISCUSSION FOR THE BOARD. MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION. MS. PUDLOW, IF WE WERE TO DECIDE TO OFFSET THE RATES WITH THE 797,000, I BELIEVE, IS THE NUMBER, DOES THAT MEAN THAT, IN PERPETUITY, GOING FORWARD, WE WOULD ALWAYS BE COMMITTING THAT DOLLAR AMOUNT TO REMAIN RATES LOWER? IS IT JUST ONE TIME OR IS IT IN PERPETUITY? IT'S IN PERPETUITY, SIR. FIRST QUESTION I HAVE, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING. YEAH, THAT'S JUST A QUESTION. MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION. THE $6 MILLION DESIGN, ASSUMING THAT'S $6 MILLION OR 6 MILLION GALLONS? IT'S $6 MILLION. OKAY. DESIGNED FOR A WATER PLANT. THAT'S ONE THAT WE COULD UTILIZE FOR SAILING TO OTHER LOCALITIES? I'M GOING TO LET MS. LUMPKIN ANSWER THAT.

OKAY. SO THAT $6 MILLION IS AN ESTIMATE OF WHAT IT WOULD COST FOR US TO HAVE A DESIGN COMPLETE AND ON THE SHELF, READY TO GO WHEN WE WANT TO FUND THE CONSTRUCTION. AS FAR AS SELLING WATER TO OTHER LOCALITIES, I BELIEVE WE COULD. I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AND SEE WHAT OUR AGREEMENT WITH ARWA IS REGARDING SELLING TO OTHER ARWA MEMBERS, IF THEY WERE INCLUDED IN WHO WE WERE LOOKING TO SELL WATER TO. OKAY.

BUT IT COULD ALSO... COULD ALSO BENEFIT FORT LEE, BECAUSE IT COULD ALSO BE A SECOND SOURCE FOR THEM. OKAY. WE COULD ALSO ROLL THE DESIGN COST INTO A LARGER PROJECT IF ONE WAS AVAILABLE. SO, YES. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WOULD ROLL THAT DESIGN COST INTO. OKAY. I GUESS CONSTRUCTION. YOU WOULD WANT TO HAVE, SO THE DESIGN IS PROBABLY GOING TO TAKE A YEAR OR TWO. AND SO YOU REALLY WOULDN'T WANT TO BORROW

[04:05:01]

AND THEN CONSTRUCTION WILL PROBABLY TAKE ANOTHER THREE YEARS, AND ESTIMATE FOR THAT IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE OVER $50 MILLION TO CONSTRUCT IT. OKAY. THANKS.

A QUICK QUESTION BEFORE WE LEAVE THE PODIUM.

YES, SIR. WHO ARE, WHAT NEIGHBORS? TO THE COUNTY OF ARLWITH, ARLWITH. COLONIAL HEIGHTS, PETERSBURG, DINWIDDIE, AND CHESTERFIELD, ALONG WITH US. I KNOW SOMEONE EXPRESSED INTEREST IN BUYING WATER FROM US. JUST WANTED TO CHECK. THANK YOU, MA'AM. CHAIR, I GUESS THE QUESTION I HAVE IS, SO THE 797, IF WE WERE TO PUT THAT INTO THE RATES, THAT WOULD PUT US FURTHER FROM BEING ABLE TO DO THE DESIGN OF WATER, THE WATER SYSTEM. IS THAT KIND OF THE EFFECT OF THAT, IS THAT IT'S NOT MONEY THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO SPEND OTHERWISE? SO THAT WAS THE REASON THAT THIS DEBT PAYMENT EXISTS.

IN YOUR FY26 BUDGET. THERE WERE A LOT OF DECISIONS ONGOING ABOUT A SEWER, A WASTEWATER SOLUTION, AND WE WERE BUDGETING FOR DEBT PAYMENTS IN THE BUDGET THAT WE ANTICIPATED. SO BASICALLY, WE'RE BUDGETING FOR DEBT TODAY, AND WE'RE NOT MAKING THE PAYMENT. YOU KNOW, THAT'S HOW WE WERE ABLE TO SHORE UP THE $600,000 DEFICIT WITH A METER READ SITUATION.

BUT THIS, IF YOU WERE TO...

AGREE TO DESIGN A WATER TREATMENT PLANT, AND YOU NEEDED TO BORROW SIX MILLION DOLLARS.

YOU WOULD HAVE TO, IN ESSENCE, INCREASE RATES TO BE ABLE TO REPAY THAT DEBT AT A LATER TIME. WHEN YOU ARE READY TO DESIGN IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST NOT. I DON'T. I DON'T KNOW WHEN THE TIMING OF THAT IS, BUT BECAUSE IT ISN'T IFB READY, SO TO SPEAK, YOU HAVEN'T AUTHORIZED US TO DESIGN THAT, IT'S NOT. WE ARE OFFERING TO TAKE IT OUT OF THE FY27 BUDGET. THANK YOU.

WHAT IS CURRENTLY IN CONTINGENCY FOR THEM? LIKE THEY HAVE A, LIKE OUR GENERAL FUND, THEY HAVE A GENERAL FUND. HOW MUCH MONEY IS THAT? THEY HAVE A CASH BALANCE, AND I BELIEVE THAT IS JUST OVER, IT WAS OVER $11 MILLION ON JUNE 30TH. I WOULD NEED TO DOUBLE CHECK THAT FIGURE FOR YOU, MR. PUGH. OKAY. OTHER QUESTIONS? DOES THE $11 MILLION OPERATE SIMILAR TO OUR FUND BALANCE, WHERE, IF THAT HAS RATINGS AND TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION, YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO GO BELOW A CERTAIN NUMBER? WE CURRENTLY DO NOT HAVE POLICIES SURROUNDING OUR ENTERPRISE FUND. WE PROBABLY DO NEED TO DEVELOP SOME FINANCIAL POLICIES RELATED TO OUR ENTERPRISE FUND ABOUT THE NUMBER OF MONTHS OF OPERATION AND CASH RESERVES WE WOULD WANT TO HAVE, BUT WE DO NOT CURRENTLY HAVE.

THOSE POLICIES IN PLACE. SO IF WE WERE TO DO ANY SORT OF DEBT FUNDING ON THIS, IT WOULD BE BASED ON OUR FUND BALANCE, WHICH IS WHAT GIVES US OUR BOND RATINGS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

IT'S NOT BASED ON ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE $11 MILLION HERE? IT COULD BE. IT COULD BE.

YOU KNOW, OUR FINANCIAL STATEMENT USERS NOT ONLY LOOK AT OUR GENERAL FUND, THEY DO LOOK AT THE ENTERPRISE FUND. WHEN YOU'RE ENTERTAINING A PROJECT FOR UTILITIES. THANK YOU. UM, MR. YES, SIR. I'M GONNA GIVE YOU A CONSENSUS FOR ME TO CUT BECAUSE I CAN'T CONTINUE TO PASS RATES TO MY CONSTITUENTS. AND HOPEFULLY, UM, IN THE FUTURE, MAYBE WE CAN ENTERTAIN SOME PARTNERSHIPS WITH THE FORT LEE AND OTHER LOCALITIES. IF THEY HAVE NEEDS TO ENTER INTO A PARTNERSHIP.

TO ACCOMPLISH SOME OF THE GOALS FOR OUR UTILITIES. AND I KNOW WITH THE LAST UTILITIES DIRECTOR, WE WERE TALKING A LOT ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS WE COULD DO TO OFFSET REVENUES, THINGS LIKE THAT. I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO DEFINITELY PICK BACK UP AND START LOOKING INTO. I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR PROPOSAL.

WHICH OPTION, I THINK, WERE YOU? SO YOUR YES IS JUST HERE, NOT NECESSARILY ON HOW TO CHANGE THE RATE? MY IS CUTTING THE DEBT ISSUANCE. I

[04:10:04]

SO, IF THERE IS CONSENSUS TO NOT CONTINUE TO BUDGET FOR THAT DEBT PAYMENT OF $700,000, THEN THE RATES INCREASE WOULD LOOK LIKE THIS INSTEAD OF THE PROPOSED. WHAT WAS THE LAST RATE INCREASE WE JUST DID ON THIS? DO YOU REMEMBER? BECAUSE I WANT TO SAY IT WAS SIGNIFICANT, BECAUSE I GOT SEVERAL PHONE CALLS. IT WAS 3%? YEAH. OH, I'M NOT. SO. WATER WAS 3 AND SEWER WAS 1. OKAY. MR. CHAIR, I THINK I CAN SUPPORT THE SAME THING ON LINE 41, OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN. MR. CHAIR, CAN I ASK A QUESTION? IF ANY, PROPOSED RATES DON'T INCREASE AS MUCH AS EXPECTED, I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS YOUR QUESTION? I'M STILL FORMULATING IT INSIDE. OKAY.

IT'S GETTING LATE. IT'S GETTING LATE NOW OVER HERE. I THINK I KNOW WHAT, MR. PUGH'S TRYING TO SAY.

WELL, THEN SAY IT. IF WE OVER-BUDGETED IN LAND ITEMS, COULD WE SEND THAT BACK TO THE RATE TO KEEP THE RATE LOW? WELL, I THINK WHAT HE'S ASKING. IF I'M STEALING FROM FUTURE DEBT SERVICE TO REDUCE THE RATE, BUT THEN THE PROVIDER REDUCES THE RATE AS PART OF A LARGER COMPLAINT, COULD WE THEN MOVE THAT MONEY TO DEBT SERVICE FOR FUTURE DESIGN PLANS? YOU'RE TELLING ME IF WE WIN AGAINST VIRGINIA MARY? RIGHT.

IS THAT PART OF THIS? YES.

THOSE RATES ARE CALCULATED.

THAT'S BUDGETED IN HERE. SO YOU'RE SAYING, IF THE VIRGINIA AMERICAN WATER INCREASE IS NOT AS HIGH AS WHAT WE PROJECT, WE WOULD PAY THEM LESS, OBVIOUSLY. AND, YES, YOU COULD DO A BUDGET TRANSFER TO MOVE FUNDING FROM THAT SERVICE LINE ITEM TO THE DEBT FUND. AND IT WOULD NOT IMPACT OUR CUSTOMER RATE.

RIGHT. YEAH. THE RATES ARE APPROVED AND THEN ADDED TO THE ORDINANCE, AND THEN SO THAT WOULD BE AN ORDINANCE AMENDMENT MID-YEAR TO GO AND UPDATE THE RATES.

THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY RECAPTURING OF ANY IN REVENUE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT INCREASING THE RATES. SO BECAUSE OF THE INCREASE IN NO MATTER WHAT, THE RATES ARE PROPOSED TO INCREASE. SO IF VIRGINIA AMERICANS SAID, OKAY, FINE, WE GIVE UP, WE'RE NOT GOING TO INCREASE THAT MUCH, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON WHEN THEY DID IT, YOU COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, CHANGED THE BUDGET IF IT'S NOT BEEN APPROVED YET. BUT IF THE BUDGET HAS BEEN APPROVED AND WE'VE HELD THE PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR THE RATES FOR THIS YEAR AND THE ORDINANCE HAS BEEN UPDATED, THEN, AGAIN, THE BOARD CAN DO, AN ATTORNEY MIGHT BE BETTER AT ANSWERING THIS, BUT THE BOARD COULD GO AND AMEND THE ORDINANCE AND AMEND THE RATES BASED ON THE REDUCTION. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT CALCULATION LOOKS LIKE TO ME.

OKAY. I DON'T, YEAH. WOULD THAT IMPACT, YOU KNOW? DID WE FUND THE 811 LOCATOR? WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING YET. YEAH.

WELL, THAT'S. WE'RE GETTING READY TO GET. YEP. OKAY. DO WE HAVE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO PUT A YES THERE, SIR? NO, NOT AT THIS TIME. OR ACTUALLY, TO PUT A NO, WOULD REMOVE IT.

YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. SO, YEAH, THE TWO POSITIONS THIS EVENING, IF WE COULD POTENTIALLY GATHER AN INITIAL CONSENSUS FROM THE BOARD. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THAT DEBT LEVER. I'M GOING TO BE A NO AT BOTH OF THEM AT THIS TIME. OKAY. I'M GOING TO BE A NO

[04:15:01]

AND WE'VE TAKEN THAT OUT OF OUR OTHER REQUESTS. RIGHT.

BUT THAT'S SOMETHING TO BE CONSIDERED IF WE'RE GOING TO FUND AN 811 LOCATOR. YOU NEED TO FUND THEM WITH THE NEW EQUIPMENT BECAUSE THE STUFF IS NOT AS OLD. YEAH, WE DON'T NEED THAT NEW EQUIPMENT YET, BECAUSE WE'RE STILL, WE'VE JUST STARTED GPS LOCATING OUR NEW INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S GOING IN THE GROUND. OKAY. AND SO WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH GPS POINTS TO REALLY NEED THAT LOCATION EQUIPMENT RIGHT NOW. OKAY.

MAYBE SOMEDAY IN THE FUTURE, WHEN WE HAVE MORE OF OUR ASSETS GPS LOCATED.

OKAY. SO THE 811 LOCATOR CURRENTLY, IF WE WERE TO BUDGET FOR IT, WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THEIR JOB. THERE'S TOOLS FOR THEM TO COMPLETE. YES, SIR.

OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. OTHER BOARD MEMBERS? CONSENSUS? I'M A NO ON THE MANAGER. I AM AS WELL.

WAS THAT, MR. HAMILL? YES, PLEASE. MR. WEBB? I AGREE WITH THAT. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT, HOW ABOUT THE LOCATOR? YOU GOT A YES AND A NO SO FAR.

IS THAT ONE WHERE WE HAD BEEN CONTRACTING IT OUT? AND WE WERE LOOKING TO BRING IT BACK IN-HOUSE.

NO? OKAY. SO THE ANSWER JUST FOR THE RECORDING IS NO, WE WERE NOT CONTRACTED, NO, NO. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE AN OVERTIME LINE IN THIS BUDGET? I DON'T KNOW.

OUR OVERTIME LINE ITEM IS CURRENTLY BUDGETED AT $35,000, AND THAT REQUEST WAS THE SAME FOR FY27. OUR ACTUAL SPEND IN FY25 WAS JUST OVER $40,000. DO YOU HAVE ANY FEEL FOR THE RUN RATE ON THAT CURRENTLY FOR THE YEAR? WE WERE AT $17,388 ON DECEMBER 31ST.

THERE IS SOME LAG.

BETWEEN HOURS, WORK AND WHEN IT'S PAID. LET ME LOOK REAL QUICK TODAY. WE ARE AT ALMOST 32,000 NOW, SO WE ARE AT 91% EXPENDED AS OF MARCH 15. PAYROLL. SO WHILE WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO PULL FROM OVERTIME, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE GOING TO RUN OVER IT. YEP. AND SO TO KEEP IT AT 35 WOULD BE THE BENEFIT OF HAVING THE ADDITIONAL. I'M A YES FOR THE LOCATOR. SO I HAVE MR. COX AS A YES. MR. WEBB AS A YES. DO WE HAVE A YES OR A NO FROM MR. HAMILL OR MR. FORD? THE $79,000 IS ALL IN WITH BENEFITS, FULL-TIME POSITION. YOU'VE GOT TO GET A VEHICLE, TOO, AT $75,000. NO, SHE'S GOING TO LOOK AT SMALLER VEHICLES.

STILL 50. YEAH, 40 TO 50, BUT IT'S BETTER THAN 75. THE OPTION THAT WE'RE STARTING TO HONE IN ON, WHAT IS THE RATES? BECAUSE I THINK WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT'S THE WHETHER OR NOT YOU PUT THE MONEY IN. OH, YES, ONE SECOND, SIR. YEAH. SO THIS WOULD BE THE AMENDED RATES. SO IF, OH, EXCUSE ME, RIGHT HERE. THESE WOULD BE THE RATES IF THE 811... YEAH, I DON'T KNOW THAT. WE DID THAT WITH THE MANAGER.

BUT I CAN LOOK AT THAT QUICKLY

[04:20:06]

IT WOULD BE SIMILAR. YEAH, IT WOULD BE SIMILAR. WELL, THE 811 LOCATOR IS LESS EXPENSIVE THAN THE MANAGER, SO THIS IS REMOVING THAT WITH THE MANAGER. AND I HEARD THEIR INTEREST IN DROPPING THE COST OF THE VEHICLE FROM $75 TO $50. I MEAN, IS THERE ABILITY TO DO THAT? YOU THINK YOU CAN GET A VEHICLE FOR $50? I'M MAKING EVERY EFFORT TO BUY USED VEHICLES.

RIGHT NOW, I HAVE FOUND A UTILITY BODY THAT'S LISTED AS USED, BUT IT'S A 2025 WITH 01,500 MILES ON IT. BUT BECAUSE IT'S LISTED AS USED, IT'S ONLY $53,000. SO I'M MAKING EVERY EFFORT I CAN TO FIND USED VEHICLES TO KEEP THOSE COSTS AS LOW AS POSSIBLE.

LET'S SAY WE CAP THE VEHICLE AT 55. SO, TO REITERATE REAL QUICK, WE DON'T HAVE AN ACTUAL COST OF REMOVING THE MANAGER AND KEEPING THE 811 LOCATED, CORRECT? NO, SIR. WE HAD NOT CALCULATED THAT, BUT I CAN BRING THAT BACK TO THE BOARD. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE CALCULATION BEFORE I MAKE MY FINAL DECISION ON WHETHER TO FUND OR NOT FUND.

I WOULD SAY THAT. BECAUSE IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, IN COMPARISON WITH THAT THIRD. I MAY WOULD BE ABLE TO SUPPORT IT, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE THE NUMBERS. ALL RIGHT, MR. HAMILL, MR. PUGH, FORD, PUGH, CONSENSUS OR NO? I MEAN, AT OUR CURRENT RUN RATE, I'M NOT AT A $79,000 POSITION TO RECOVER THE OVERTIME COST.

YOU WOULD SPEND LESS IN OVERTIME. RIGHT. REALLY? LESS? ON 8-1-1? I THINK PART OF THE DISCUSSION FOR THIS POSITION WERE THE AMOUNT OF CALLS THAT OUR FOLKS HAVE TO BE ON TO TAKE CARE OF THESE WHEN THEY COME THROUGH, SO THAT LEAVES LESS STAFF AVAILABLE TO GO DO PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE.

I DIDN'T REALLY MEAN TO GET INTO THIS, BUT I KNOW THAT THERE'S A LOT OF PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE THAT WE CAN IMPROVE ON. SO ONE OF THEM IS WHEN THINGS REST SHUT. RACHEL, PLEASE HELP ME WITH TECHNICAL SPEAK, BUT IT'S LIKE, WE HAVE TO GO TURN NOZZLES AND THINGS LIKE THAT SO THEY DON'T GET RUSTED SHUT. THAT MAKES REPAIRS MORE COMPLICATED. WE CERTAINLY HAVE ADDITIONAL MAINTENANCE THINGS THAT WE ARE STRUGGLING TO KEEP UP WITH. THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO BE BETTER AT THAT AND SAVE COSTS THERE.

REGULARLY VALVE, EXERCISING VALVES SO THAT WE DON'T RUN INTO AN OPEN ONE OR NEED TO CLOSE ONE. HAVE LAST FISCAL YEAR DID HAVE ABOUT 3,200 811 TICKETS. IF YOU AVERAGE THAT OVER THE NUMBER OF WORK DAYS IN A YEAR, THAT'S ABOUT 13 TICKETS PER DAY. AND EACH TICKET, A REGULAR ONE, NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED WITHIN 36 HOURS, AN EMERGENCY WITHIN THREE HOURS. SO IT JUST PULLS PEOPLE FROM THE PUMP STATION AND SYSTEM MAINTENANCE.

DOES IT PULL THEM OFF OF SADDLE REPLACEMENTS? RIGHT NOW IT DOES. BECAUSE WE CAN GET A CREW OUT THERE. SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO PULL SOMEBODY OFF TO GO DO THE 811 LOCATING, OR WE HAVE TO CALL A CONTRACTOR IN TO DO THE SADDLE REPLACEMENT.

IF WE DON'T HAVE THE PEOPLE TO DO IT. QUESTION, WOULD IT BE CHEAPER TO HAVE A CONTRACTOR DO THE 811 VERSUS HAVING A CONTRACTOR DO THE SADDLE? BECAUSE I KNOW WE HAVE, LIKE YOU... I GUESS, UTILIX WEST. THERE'S OTHER COMPANIES OUT THERE THAT DO THAT SORT OF THING, RIGHT? I'M NOT REALLY SURE. WE WOULD HAVE TO GIVE AN OUTSIDE COMPANY COMPLETE ACCESS TO ALL OF OUR AS-BUILT INFORMATION AND WHERE ALL OF OUR ASSETS ARE LOCATED. AND I'M NOT SURE ABOUT HERE, BUT I KNOW AT THE UTILITY I PREVIOUSLY WORKED AT, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY SAID THAT WAS NOT A VERY GOOD IDEA. ABSOLUTELY YES.

FOR NOW, I'D LIKE TO BE A NO AND SEE WHAT THE CALCULATION IS

[04:25:05]

WE GOT 28 MINUTES TO WRAP IT UP. WE CEASE OPERATION AT 11, SO WE TAKE A VOTE, MR. CHAIR, IF YOU WANT TO KNOW, I'LL CALL RECESS, MOVE ALONG. YES, SIR, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON THE $797,898, WHETHER WE WANT TO REMOVE THAT EXCESS DEBT FROM THE BUDGET? REMOVE IT FOR NOW. WE'LL SEE WHERE THE RATES LAND WITH THE TWO POSITIONS UNFUNDED, AND THEN MAYBE WE CAN LEAVE A PORTION OF THAT IN. OKAY, OKAY. BASED ON CURRENT CONSENSUS, REMOVAL OF EXCESS DEBT AND THEN NO TO BOTH POSITIONS. TIER 1 IS 2.5 THROUGH 3, 2.5. AND THEN SEWER IS AN 8% INCREASE AND THEN NO CHANGE TO MINIMUM CHARGES. OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS? I'LL MOVE ON TO THE OTHER. BUDGETS, THESE OTHERS ARE MUCH FASTER UNLESS THE BOARD HAS QUESTIONS. MOVE ALONG. OKAY. I WON'T GO OVER EVERY LINE ITEM HERE UNLESS THE BOARD ASKS, BUT LODGING AND TAX REVENUES ARE STEADY AT $850,000. SO WE ARE CURRENTLY PULLING THE STATUTORY MAXIMUM AT 7%. 5% IS GOING TO THIS FUND. SALARIES AND BENEFITS, YOU CAN SEE. THERE IS A DECREASE OF $31,007. AND THIS IS A DECREASE BASED ON PART-TIME WAGES BEING REDUCED.

AGAIN, WE SEE A BENEFIT HERE FROM VRS RATE REDUCTION, TERM LIFE INSURANCE, AND THEN THE HEALTH INSURANCE WOULD BE CHANGED BASED ON BOARD DISCUSSION.

FOR EXPENDITURES, NON-SALARY CHANGES, WE CONTRIBUTE CURRENTLY $12,000 TO FULLER. THEY ARE ASKING FOR AN INCREASE OF $17,135. THEY ARE A 501C3 NONPROFIT. MR. JABRI IS HERE IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS ON ANYTHING HERE. HOPEWELL CHAMBER OF COMMERCE IS ASKING FOR A $60 INCREASE TO LEVEL THAT OUT AT $52,000 CONTRIBUTION. AGAIN, A 501C6 NONPROFIT. CIVIL WAR TRAILS CONTRIBUTION IS ASKING FOR A $900 INCREASE. WE HAVE THREE SIGNS HERE IN PRINCE GEORGE FOR A TOTAL OF $150 INCREASE.

PARK UPGRADES AND PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT, THAT'S A REDUCTION OF $32,680, BUT THE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO CONSIDER THE $30,000 FOR THE, THAT WOULD BE, YEAH, THAT WOULD BE LEVEL FUNDING.

IT LOOKS LIKE A REDUCTION OF ABOUT $2,000. CONTINGENCY WILL INCREASE BASED ON BOARD DECISIONS, SO THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE SITTING AT ABOUT $87,000, WITH THAT $30,000 BEING FUNDED THROUGH THE PAVILION. THE BASKETBALL COURT AT TEMPLE.

SORRY, CONTINGENCY WILL GO DOWN BASED ON THAT. NON SALARY ITEMS WITH NO CHANGE. I'M JUST GOING TO SCROLL THROUGH HERE. PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU'D LIKE ME TO STOP. PROFESSIONAL SERVICES FORTY, FOUR THOUSAND, TWO HUNDRED, FIFTY DOLLARS. HERE IT TALKS ABOUT WHAT'S INCLUDED THEIR MAINTENANCE SERVICE CONTRACTS FIVE THOUSAND, SEVEN HUNDRED, FIFTY. ADVERTISING, MARKETING AND TOURISM TEN THOUSAND, CONVENTION AND EDUCATION FOR TRADE SHOWS 5000, CONFERENCE FOR SPORTS TOURISM OPPORTUNITIES ALSO INCLUDED THERE. PART PETERSBURG AREA REGIONAL TOURISM CONTRIBUTION OF $65,000, NO CHANGE THERE.